Previously, I wrote about some of the reasons why miners violate the New Halaima Code of Conduct. By far the most controversial provision of the Code, the one which inspires the most defiance, is the mining fee provision: Those who choose to mine in New Order territory are required to purchase positive standings from the Supreme Protector. These mining fees are extremely affordable--10 million isk for 365 days. For miners down on their luck, there are cheaper short-term permits, such as the 1 million isk 24-hour permit. However, the 365 permit is the most economical and is by far the most popular payment option.
As I wrote in the post about miner non-compliance, when a miner pays his mining fee, that's a very good sign that he is adjusting to the New Order. He's no longer just droning along as a zombie "playing" the game at a rote mouse-click per hour. He's interacting. He's learning new things. This is good.
But I also believe paying the mining fee is very beneficial for the miners, right from the beginning. One of the main problems with highsec miners is that they only care about senselessly accumulating piles of isk. They log in, do something boring to grind out isk, and log out. Next day, same thing. What do they use the isk for? More mining upgrades to grind out more isk. And when they've maxed-out their mining yield? More grinding for more isk.
Then what? What do they do with all that isk? They've spent their entire EVE career doing something they don't enjoy (as evidenced by the fact that they're AFK), so what's the meaning behind their sacrifice? Well, highsec miners usually don't think that far ahead. When I ask them about it, they tell me most of the money goes toward PLEX. Obviously that's not an answer, because PLEX just allows you to do more mining and isk-grinding. The miners ultimately have no greater purpose for their isk-grinding. They pile up the money, and eventually they quit.
As I've said before, they're bots. Bots do things. They don't ask why; they just follow their routine. Then, one day, their batteries give out.
This kind of behavior is detrimental to all involved. It's dehumanizing. The solution is to shake the miners out of their quiet, desperate routine and make them realize there's something better than hoarding isk. The first step is giving some of that money away. If they're unable to give up some isk, the isk has control over them. By paying me their mining fees, the miners reassert their control over themselves. At last, they control their money instead of the other way around.
And so it is. When a miner gives you the 10 million isk mining fee, do you need to thank him? To be polite, maybe. But it's the miner who should be thanking you.
Some miners, like myself, that did pay fees after a while, actually find that these run-ins are fun, and break the daily routine. The point of a sandbox game is to set your own rules, and james succeeded at that. Even though at first i was annoyed, i really appreciated that people actually have ideas like that. These ideas are what MAKE eve online what it is. Want to mindlessly grind without interacting ? Go play fucking wow.
ReplyDeleteAnd even if you don't like james, think that what he said in this post is kinda true. Mining simply for mining and paying plex so you can mine ? errrr ?
I did that at first, and was happy to do it. But when he pointed out that i wasnt actually doing anything, i got kinda angry at him, and i believe i told him to "suck goon cocks" or something like that.
Now i am in null, as an industrial pilot. My mining feeds the warmachine, and it's not AFK mining, but large-scale mining ops. And i can hop in a frigate and go pvp with no questions asked on behalf of our FCs.
Neltharak is a pilot from my new corporation, and upon learning from james through me and the forums, decided to go to high sec to bring more pilots to null, and have a laugh in the process.
For people thinking that i'm James, or one of his alts, my character is Beleg Vokan.
And even though james pissed me off at first, i now approve what he does.
Unfortunately my goals were the same as yours but due to James and the CODE all that has been ended. I can no longer get the raw materials for building nor afford the skill books to take me into low sec. I cannot reach for those stars anymore.
DeleteBut you don't teach anything. ^ This guy if it is someone different than you or your lackeys, learned on his own. If you really want to teach, take people under your wing instead of just "pay 10m isk or be bumped" that's not teaching shit, that's why most get angry at you. It's extortion, not teaching.
ReplyDeleteAs for doing nothing, I'm training while I mine in Highsec, 3 characters to all get caught up from a hiatus I took. My plan is to move close to null as I get higher in skills and meet more people. So as for your "you're not doing anything" that's complete bullshit, just because some don't have a specific answer for their plans of the moment doesn't mean we are all mindless. And, just because they don't have a specific answer, you could give them one instead of extorting isk under petty threats.
What you could do, that would be more productive, because even you said that barely any miners pay, and you only make money off the hopes and dreams of your idiot shareholders with more money than sense. Is start a corporation and genuinly try to help the high sec miners get deeper into the game, you could make money still, and actually be helping as you claim to be doing but failing at. But you won't becuase you're the biggest carebear of them all, too afraid to pvp, too afraid of null, and don't give me that "gotta answer my questions three" monthy python rip off crap, if you really are so great, prove it. Tell us who your alt is, or go the fuck out there and pvp and make a name for yourself instead of a carebear extortionist.
"But I also believe paying the mining fee is very beneficial for the miners, right from the beginning. One of the main problems with highsec miners is that they only care about senselessly accumulating piles of isk. They log in, do something boring to grind out isk, and log out. Next day, same thing. What do they use the isk for? More mining upgrades to grind out more isk. And when they've maxed-out their mining yield? More grinding for more isk." And what do you call what you do? You only log in, do some stupid shit, and then log out with more ISK than you had when you logged in. Talk about hypocrisy at its worst.
ReplyDeleteVery "Tyler Durden". Your possessions end up owning you.
ReplyDeleteI am not a miner or carebear griefer like James315.
ReplyDeleteTo an outsider just seeing this blog - It seems funny how he says miners just accumulate isk and won't spend it but then in another blog post says he won't make a player corp cause he wont spend one million isk due to it cutting into profits.
No prob with what James315 does. Protecting rocks is environmentally responsible and should be done. The miners would leave space empty without groups protecting them.
But I think most people don't like that he doesn't have the balls to do it from a player corp.
Better players understand it really just shows the spineless type of person he is.
So yeah good idea - but you're pissweak to do it while hiding in npc corps.
Welcome to three months ago:
Deletehttp://www.minerbumping.com/2012/09/not-hiding-in-npc-corp.html
http://www.minerbumping.com/2012/09/experimental-fun-times-corp-wins-its.html
http://www.minerbumping.com/2012/09/experimental-fun-times-corp-returns-to.html
I know that reading the site is easy and informative, but give it a chance. I'm assuming you were linked this current article and have no experience with the rest. Now is your day to learn.
You presuppose, unfortunately, that people only have the one account. I Alt-tab mine regularly, with one character as close to bot-level efficiency as humanly possible. Why? Because my other character needs money to supply the essentially disposable ships, ammunition, and other things that don't pay for themselves. Since I'm unwilling to scam, gank, or otherwise piss off strangers for no good reason (and no, 'it's fun' is not a good reason. Nor are 'I feel like it', 'it's good for them' or 'it's profitable'), and missions (though great fun) do not make money fast enough to cover PLEX and spare battleships, having the ability to mine uninterrupted and undisturbed in the background is exceedingly useful.
ReplyDeleteYour reply, unfortunately, contains many factual errors.
Delete"You presuppose, unfortunately, that people only have the one account."
Incorrect. Awareness of this fact is easily seen. In fact, it's part of Miner Bingo!
"having the ability to mine uninterrupted and undisturbed in the background is exceedingly useful."
You mean, that WOULD be exceedingly useful--since you don't have that ability.
I have an ability I can make tacos
Delete"They log in, do something boring to grind out isk, and log out. Next day, same thing. What do they use the isk for?"
ReplyDeleteEver heard what a PLEX is? Thats what I'm buying from this.
Btw. most of your mates going for shoot first, and then ask. All noobs.
It's apparent that you didn't read the whole article and did not properly learn the wisdom of what James 315 is preaching, as PLEXes were addressed.
DeleteI think he means his miner account pays for plex for ALL of his accounts. Not just to mine more on the mining account...
DeleteBut I guess you can dress it up as self-righteous crap to justify to yourself what you do.
You should try saying it out loud in public to someone "I use a good portion of my spare time in an online video game, not playing it but sitting around waiting to intentionally ruin it for people and heaps of people know me, I'm a big deal." lol.
Sounds like a very repetitive job to me always log in splode miners, log in splode miners, log in splode miners, log in splode miners, log in splode miners, log in splode miners, log in splode miners, log in splode miners. what about tacos
DeleteI'm not a bot miner, I usually pay for my sub with cash a month at a time. I do mine occasionally because instead of buying my ships off of the market I manufacture them. So say I mine maybe once, twice a month does this still apply? I don't have shit, but what I make. I'm not more involved in EVE because I am physically disabled. I don't afk mine I only mine what I need to create ships and since I don't mine or play enough it's a bit of an inconvenience to pay the fee when I don't mine enough. I hate bot miners with a passion, I see a lot of the Russian HS corps do bot mining and they take everything out of the system and legit players like myself needing or to build stuff we use and NOT to make huge profits gets screwed over. So if we don't make enough to pay the fee or don't mine like career miners do, how do YOUR agents tell the difference or is there one?
ReplyDeleteEasy. Anyone who says they can't afford 10m isk if they've been playing for longer than 2 months is lying. If they're lying about that, then it stands to reason they're a liar about other things, like not being a bot aspirant.
ReplyDeleteNo it means some people mine very little. How do your agents tell the difference who is a regular miner and just some guy trying to make a ship. This is just sad extortion by people that work around the EULA. Bot aspirant, that sounds ignorant.
ReplyDeleteAgents cannot be everywhere at once.
DeleteIf you mine only a little then your chances of running into an agent are only a little.
10 Million ISK is only like 27.5K per day. Just a few Ventures full of Scordite.
If you cannot find the will to do that, then there is no helping you up from the slide to the BOTtom.
You sound like Hitler, and even though you may sound good I understand there are far greater evils at work. I hope CCP eventually sees you for the evil you are, Jame 315, and bans you. I will pray for you because you obviously are struggling with issues you want to take out on others. I pray God will change your ways.
ReplyDeleteWould I pay Concord for mining(as taxes for living in any country)?
ReplyDeleteYES!
Would I pay to a Corporation that acts by the CODE but without ganking just for fun even it's own Agents, issuing permit for miners according to their needs.
YES!
Would I pay to some ganker that don't do anything useful for the game economy or players, other than making them pay money? NO!
If someone gets bored with mining, there are lot of missions and corporations. Harassing miners is a short-term solution, like harassing kids in playground for their lunchmoney
Subscription is one general payment, and "ship insurance" is already that sort of payment that CODE demands, so I don't see any good reason to pay ANY amount of ISK to a player with megalomania FOR NOTHING.
but.. what if as a miner I enforce the CODE with myself and pay myself the 10mill ISK mining fee for 365 days of bump free mining? or is there a central ledger that James 315(or some other person of manager standing) keeps for transparency and documentation? Or do I need to pay each individual person that is bumping the 10mill?
ReplyDelete