Yet the story had a happy ending when Agent Steve the Pirate managed to convince Ba'Ba to pay the 30 million isk required to get off the Red Pen list and into the New Order. She became a poster child for the redemptive power of the New Order, and our extraordinary capacity for forgiveness.
Everyone lived happily ever after... or so we thought. Today Ba'Ba stands accused of serious violations of the Code, and is in danger of becoming the first paying miner to forfeit her mining fee. At the conclusion of this series, Ba'Ba's fate will be left in the hands of the Shareholders of the New Order. Ba'Ba has sent me an EVEmail stating (at considerable length) her side of the story. Prior to the shareholder vote, the contents of that EVEmail will be made available in its entirety.
It all began in Halaima, as Faye Alexandra was busy teaching the local miners. Ba'Ba interjected an odd--though relatively innocent--comment.
Then she struck a peculiar tone with me.
Given her experience with Steve the Pirate and the mercy of the New Order, I was surprised by her opinions and tone.
Ba'Ba denied that she embraced the New Order, which is a very strange thing for a Code-compliant miner to say. Had she suffered a relapse?
I asked the question point-blank, so she could clarify her status. But she did not respond.
Obviously a miner who pays the mining fee but then rejoins the rebellion would forfeit her mining permit. So far, it's never happened, because it would be lunacy for a miner to abandon the New Order.
I offered Ba'Ba another life-line, inviting her to affirm her support for the New Order. But she became grouchy instead. What was going on?
Something wasn't right here. Had Ba'Ba gone rogue?
I gave her yet another chance to put the matter to rest, but was met with an icy silence.
After she spent some time reacquainting herself with the Code, which is usually helpful for miners to do, she returned to local chat. But instead of expressing enthusiasm for the Code, she began a skepticism-filled rant. Had Ba'Ba lost faith in the Code? Would she throw away the only community in EVE that ever accepted her--and become the first apostate miner? Or was it all a big misunderstanding?
To be continued...
James a question for you good sir.
ReplyDeletehttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=163208&find=unread ,Will the glorious new order be getting involved in assisting the GSF in the renewed gallente ice interdiction? It seems that there may be transgressors present in the gallente belts. As such they need to taught a lesson, via suicide ganks from the GSF and helpful bumps from the new order as they try to escape.
Possibly. We'll wait and see if this is the beginning of a fully fledged interdiction campaign or just a bit of fun on their part.
DeleteDoes it really surprise you so much that there are people that will pay your fine not to join and participate in the new order, but just to get you off there backs and get back to mining?
ReplyDeleteThe system you are using to get new people into the new order is based on whatever miner you find to bump. you might look to recruit new members to the new order and talk with them sometimes to get to know them on a first impression. but how often do you stay in contact with players that pay there fines? do you go talk with them after they pay? ask them how there doing? how life is? or how about how the new order changed them?
All too often i find that you and your members are having difficulty keeping track of paying miners. don't deny it. even you have admitted in past posts. and its a result of the system you have built. although it has many advantages, there are also flaws.
How can you easily and on demand keep track of all miners and players that have paid your fines? more importantly, of those that have paid, how do you know who to trust? just because they have paid your fine does not necessarily mean they will follow your code. they have there own intentions.
Imagine building a corp or alliance out of random people that you have barely talked to. theres no judging players that enter your alliance. all are allowed in regardless of who they are. on top of that, you hardly know any of them. will these people follow you when called? will they agree with your ideals? will they stay with you when you need them? perhaps. but it is better to only allow those you have spoken to and trust to join your cause.
As a direct result of the way you bring people into the new order you have incidences like above. this is just the first one to openly admit there opinion. make no mistake there are many others like her.
How you solve this issue is none of my business. and it will be interesting to see how things unfold and how you will find and compensate for these kinds of people. but please do not pretend to be awestruck upon the discovery of someone in your group that does not agree with the new order. i know you. your better than that. you will know all the flaws in your plans being the architect of them. so don't be surprised when one of the flaws comes to light.
Again, don't disappoint me james,
Heavy Met4l Queen.
thats a big wall of sperg you got there assburger queen
DeleteI figured you would do this, James. Why don't you post the entire conversation? I told you, plain as day that I don't deny, nor support it, it is what it is, I've payed you your fees, and I will pay them when required by your code.
ReplyDeleteI am not part of a rebellion, I just asked a question, what am I paying you for protection from. It's not gankers you told me I have to respect them, I'm cool with that Irrelevancy doesn't apply, I'm still irrelevant. Myself isn't the answer because the point of that character is being established. It's not isk greed, I have no isk greed, it keeps me playing I don't want more than I need. It's not for my evil deed of petitioning because I payed for that evil deed. It's not for afk or botting because I've answered you whenever you call, because I'm always at my keyboard when mining/playing the game on miner and alt. So what am I paying YOU for protection FROM for ME.
Simple question, no rebellion, I never opposed, I've told you several times I'm neutral. This is the point, I was respectful, I spoke like an adult to you the entire time, I was even respectful to your shareholders when I sent in my appeal, you taking things I've said out of context isn't returning that respect though, James. It's disappointing. Here is my shareholder letter, so all can see I'm not lying or telling half truths.
"I am Ba'Ba,
DeleteApparently, I am appealing to the shareholders to keep my protected status or forfeit it and return to the red pen list, for asking a question to James 315, a simple question of what am I being protected from. I have been respectful through the entire conversation with him today. I've asked the question several times only to have him give me dodgy answers in return that I have responded to.
These answers are "From yourself, from your isk greed, from irrelevance, from the lack of law and order, from your evil deed of petitioning me."
I've given the answers of, I'm not harming myself, I'm playing this game, this character was intended to be a miner, it goes on asteroid runs when needed otherwise mining ice while training R&D, and manufacturing while I play my alt fighter. I've responded to him every time, never once afk, and if late it's because I play with two monitors and two accounts.
There is no isk greed as I'm not trying to make more than I need to support myself, I don't even buy plex with my isk, it supports myself, and my nephew (while I teach him how to play the game and earn money for himself) and sometimes a friend or two (when they need a spot of cash and they pay me back), I rarely have over 300m in my Wallet at any given time. I don't personally need more, I don't personally want more, if it's needed to better friends and family then I will do my best to aquire it.
He has told me my name was irrelevant before I payed him, nobody knew me before I payed him. Nobody knows me now. Nothing has changed in that respect. If people do know my name it's because James has painted me in his light of what is evil and what is good, people might know of my name but they don't know me, I haven't made any advances in corps or with other players because of James, so I don't see "protection" there. I'm not for or against that, it doesn't bother me.
Law and order is provided through Concord, so I don't see how he is providing it, so I asked why, what is he protecting ME from.
And the last answer, of me petitioning him, I have payed my dues for that, I've payed 30m isk, I spit my viritol his way, but I've quit, there is no point, todays discussion was calm and respectful from me, while I was treated like an idiot while attempting to explain. I will pay another 10m when my 365 days are up, but I remain neutral to the New Order, I neither support it nor deny it. It is what it is, I will pay for my nephew when he gets his miner up and running in the next week. I will pay what I owe. But, to admit he's Supreme Protector, I must have an answer as to what is he protecting me from. None of his answers are answers at all, none of them have helped me personally. None of them have changed the way I play this game. AFK and Botting do not apply to me as I am at my keyboard every time he calls, I log off when I'm done for the session, I answer things directed towards me.
He doesn't provide protection from gankers, he tells us we must respect them, as they are a part of EVE, I admit they are a part of EVE, I've been ganked a few times, I expect them, they are not an issue to me. When I was ganked just the other day, I only sent him a message asking if there was a reason or if they were just rolling through, when he told me his answer I left it alone, it was over, it was done with there is no reason to get angry over a ganker. The only issue I have is I do not know what I am being protected from. I didn't need protection before James moved in, so what do I need it from now that he is here? I don't feel the respect he claims to give, nor the love, or guidence that he claims to give in return for his "protection". Instead I feel humiliated and degraded, talked down to, and forced to abide by laws I don't understand what they exist for, mind you, I've read the code several times. I've read the manifestos, I know what James is selling, but none of it means/applies anything to me personally as a player, or a person.
DeleteAgain, I will pay my dues to the New Order, my fees that are mentioned in the code, but I am neutral, I neither support nor deny, until I have an answer, THE answer, because there is only one. I've told James, if he would answer that, I would join the New Order, might even become a shareholder, maybe one of the highest. I don't expect to be supported by the shareholders, for my simple question that should be easy to answer. I am doing this to prove that I have done it, to talk to the shareholders, probably, one first, and last time. But I thank you all for your time you've spent reading this."
Anyway, you have a good day, James, or night wherever you are.
Oh, and another point I would like to point out that you left out, is during that conversation you forced me to say the things I said or I automatically forfeit my indulgences. I was trying to play my fighter and responded only to Faye, but you asked me a question, told me if I didn't answer I was forfeit, I didn't want to get into that conversation with you in the first place, but you forced it. When I told you I was nuetral you told me that's not good enough, I'm sorry, James, that is what it is until you can answer my question. I will pay you, when the time comes, but I remain neutral.
DeleteNOW you can have a good night or day, James. :)
You either support the Code or you oppose it. As you refuse to acknowledge your support you are clearly a rebel, as only a rebel would claim to be a neutral party.
DeleteBa'Ba, surely you see the answer to your own question. Consider what you would be doing, if the New Order did not extend to you it's mercy - would you not be either AFK mining, or toiling away in an asteroid or ice field, listlessly watching your mining lasers bore into an immobile object, for the sole purpose of watching your ISK grow? If this was the case, then were you not clearly a bot-aspirant, your actions mimicking the bots you desired to become?
DeleteYet the New Order has come to your systems, and has extended an invitation to you to play EVE with the rest of us - as a human, not a bot. By bumping your ships, the New Order allows you to reflect, and see for yourself what you had become through your bot-aspirancy: a husk of a pilot, chained to the slow ISK drip of your mining lasers. By requiring of you a fee for a Mining Permit, the New Order allows you to see for yourself the emergent gameplay befitting the brave capsuleers of New Eden.
In doing this, have the noble pilots of the New Order not already protected you: from yourself, your ISK-greed, your irrelevance, and your bot-aspirancy? How much clearer of an answer could you possibly desire?
Noble Saviour, James 315, I would humbly suggest that this not be put to a vote among shareholders, if that was your intent. I feel that Ba'Ba's actions and words have clearly indicated that she does not understand the clear and merciful guiding principles of the New Order and it's Code, and it is through this ignorance that she does not wholeheartedly support the principles by which you stand.
Perhaps more gentle bumps from the Agents of the New Order would help her understand why the New Order is necessary?
Long Live the New Order!
Mallak Azaria:
Delete"You either support the Code or you oppose it. As you refuse to acknowledge your support you are clearly a rebel, as only a rebel would claim to be a neutral party."
Unfortionatly, you're wrong. I don't rebel, I do exactly what the new order asked of me, I payed. I am neutral to the new order itself, only to the fact that I will not wave your banner for you, you lot are doing fine on your own, but I have succumbed and payed your fees. I will do so in 365 days when I'm required to do so again.
As for you new anonymous poster, why anonymous? Are you not proud of your new order? Anyway, I have several issues with what you have stated, as you have stated exactly the opposite of what I have told you several times. Which is the problem I have most of all and troubles me the most about the New Order, you seem to call all miners liars and treat us like dirt, even after we have succumbed and given you your money, the "would you not be either AFK mining, or toiling away in an asteroid or ice field, listlessly watching your mining lasers bore into an immobile object, for the sole purpose of watching your ISK grow?" I've already stated that I play two characters. My miner/R&D/Manufactuering character, and my fighter, whenever logged on I don't just afk away or watch my isk grow, I'm generally mission running. I answer when questions are directed towards me pretty hastely, as long as I can get a moment free and I'm not going to lose a ship on my fighter.
Now, since you didn't show me the respect to read the rest of what I posted, I'm not going to return the favor. This is a two way street, here. Why on earth should anyone just bow down to you if you won't even ask how my day is going? Or in your case read a few paragraphs to understand my point of view?
My question stands, James. What am I, paying YOU for protection FROM, for ME? Answer it, and you have won, I'll wave your banner. Otherwise, I cannot.
New anonymous poster here
DeleteFirstly, the New Order is not "mine". I am not even a bumper - though I am touched by the elegant, simple truth of the words of James 315 and the Code, and I am moved to help others understand it.
With that out of the way, I find your argument irrelevant. Without the New Order, would you not indeed be indulging in bot-aspirant behavior, leaving your mining ship to mindlessly gather ISK while not paying attention, running missions instead? Is this not the very definition of bot-aspirancy? After all, why pay attention without bumpers to worry about, right?
You may indeed partially follow the letter of the Code - that is, to remain "at your keyboard" while mining - but to me, you have clearly violated the spirit of the Code: to not indulge in bot-aspirant behavior, and to pay your full undivided attention to your mining character at all times. Of this, your own words have proven you guilty beyond a doubt.
Your words here point further to your ignorance of the Code - you consider it to be some device of oppression that you have "succumbed" to, reluctantly paying your Mining Permit fee. To me, the Code is a device of liberation, freeing you from the shackles of bot-aspirancy, AFK-mining, irrelevance and greed. To help you understand this, may I suggest that you read our gracious Saviour's previous works, the Manifestos, and take in their wisdom before returning to your study of the Code.
Wise James 315, in light of these circumstances most dire, I must humbly suggest a special display of the mercy for which you are known, for Ba'Ba: that her Mining Permit be revoked, and the cost of her next Mining Permit be increased to 50m, that she might have additional time and cause for introspection, and study of the Code under the guidance of the Agents of the New Order, and their Stabbers.
In opposing the New Order, you oppose the Code. There is no neutrality. I will vote accordingly.
DeleteAnonymous, again you seem to assume you know me, I've always played this game in the exact same way I play today, there is no other reason to play. My miner keeps my fighter fueled as well as friends and family, even if that, often times it can't. When I'm playing my fighter my miner is on, when I'm not playing my fighter my miner is off, and I work, as in have a real life, pay my bills, feed myself. So no, you're incorrect in your assumptions, what you imply do not apply to me. It may apply to others, and as that goes, hit the afkers all you want, hit the botters all you want, but those that actually play the game, and are here, there is no reason. As it isn't even in your code, you throw around aspirant behaviour clause as if it means something, in my case, it does not.
DeleteThere is no liberation because what are you liberating me from? Please, do not answer in the same way you have done, time and time again, IE. "myself" "Irrelevancy" etc. I've explained that means nothing in my case. Again, that is ME, not others you try to lump me into, take into account what I have said to you, there are no lies..
Mallak Azaria, I've already assumed I wouldn't be supported, I understand fully, what I am doing. So, vote as you will. You're still wrong though, as outlined above, you assume just as much as your anonymous friend there. There is always grey, when black and white meet, neutral is that grey. When I pledge allegience, it will be to someone who wants to better me as a player, that in turn betters them as a player/entitiy. James offers no betterment, only a demand of payment or risk punishment. Since I have payed, I haven't heard anything, no words of encouragement that benefit me, only his New order.
As I've stated you lot do not listen to your supporters, it's clear from this conversation alone. From the simple fact that you dodge questions.
This is the last message you will recieve from me, as there is no point. Your mind has been made up even without me saying anything, I don't want my name smeared through out of context conversations and propaganda, though, as well as I'm tired of repeating myself.
DeleteQuestion still stands, James. I hope you will be the rightous leader you tell me you are.
You've done a far better job of smearing your own name out of context than any propaganda could have. There is no gray area here. You either embrade the New Order & the Code, or you rebel against it. You have chosen to rebel.
Delete