Dooobles was one example among many. His mind had been poisoned by propaganda about how nullsec is a "blue doughnut" with little PvP activity. At the same time, it was too dangerous for him to mine there, as a non-doughnut member.
kodohumper spewed another common idea among highsec miners: The carebears of highsec should be left alone, because most botting takes place in nullsec.
Everyone who has argued with someone on the internet knows that arguments are won by demanding that the other side meet the "burden of proof". This is because sane people do not spend hours collating exhaustive data to win arguments with people who assigned them homework via the internet.
Meanwhile, Bullet Zorrander piped in with another frequent highsec complaint, that highsec doesn't offer enough income.
kodohumper continued to insist that I carried the burden of proof, because I had made a claim. But by disagreeing with me, he made a claim of his own, and by his own rules would need to meet the burden of proof. A strange game. My own rule is that people who disagree with my commonsense ideas must shoulder the burden of proof alone, regardless of who speaks first. So far, I have won every argument I've ever had.
G'Monk stepped in, offering his own poisonous idea: Highsec mining is too dangerous. G'Monk enjoys AFK mining because he can go outside when the weather is good. I don't have a problem with someone leaving the house, but I don't believe they should get paid isk for it.
I was grieved when G'Monk suggested that highsec has become more dangerous over the years. So many lost miners.
I have always believed that EVE's strength is emergent gameplay, and would not long survive competing in a theme park market with games like WoW.
I stunned the locals when I expressed my belief that the integrity of EVE's emergent gameplay is more important than CCP's finances. I would rather see CCP close its doors than for EVE to lose its spirit.
G'Monk argued that EVE needs to be warped into a newbie-friendly version of itself. But why should the true spirit of EVE be sacrificed on the altar to new players--the very people who have contributed the least to the game?
The locals were scandalized and appalled, and threatened to report me to the media for my heresies.
G'Monk and Bullet both shared the misconception that caring about EVE is synonymous with making highsec a peaceful theme park for new players.
...The conversation devolved from there.
Marauda Jana proved that there are still glimmers of sense in highsec, but the prospects of cutting through the darkness grew dim.
Saving highsec isn't easy. There will be times when it will take extraordinary courage and resolve. I am the real James 315, and I am reporting for duty.
As a null sec miner I'm not sure how to break this to you but there are plenty of bots in null. It's a lot easier to set a botfleet on the roids and pop pirates with your main. Of course the user in this case is actually at the keyboard...
ReplyDeleteplenty =/= majority, so first you have to switch what you're attempting to prove to something that's relevant, then you have to do a better job shouldering the burden of proof than making an anonymous comment citing yourself as your evidence.
DeleteI love the ephemeral "newbie". Nobody has met one, but for sure, the entire hope of EVE rests on making sure nobody hurts their poor little haids!
ReplyDeleteUnlike some of these silly 'bears, I remember being a newbie. Back on '04ish, when I started EVE. Back then, we got a noobship, a pat on the ass, and "undock button is here" from Aura. Within 3 weeks I was happily bipping about lowsec, playing dodge the guys who wanna blow me up, and having a grand old time. Never considered mining as a profession, cause *gasp* jetcan mining was considered an exploit back then.
Today, we have the tutorial missions, career agents, Sisters of EVE arc, unbeatable CONCORD who instapoints (that's a PVP term for warp scrambled), super barges with massive ore holds, no learning skills (try getting into a decent corp with learning skills less than four...it didn't happen), in-depth mission guides for every possible mission...and it's still "too mean" for the "newbie"!
I swear, if some of you 'bears spent half the time learning about EVE as you did play amateur game dev/accountant, ya'll would be pro PVPers. Ganking is at an all-time low according to CCP. If you can't deal with what little bit is left, EVE is the wrong game for you.
I really hope CCP revamps highsec soon, and fixes this wealth imbalance. According to sources, they removed all the icefields from highsec on Duality. We can only hope CCP is finally taking smart steps, there...
Nonsense, jetcan mining has never been seen as an exploit.
DeleteIf that is true fappington, and Ice fields do get removed from highsec on tranquility one day. Then that, truly is a massive victory and step in the right direction for EVE. Not to mention a great victory for the New Order as we are no small part in bringing attention to the cancer eating away at the heart and soul of EVE.
ReplyDelete"I could care less about "New Players"."
ReplyDeleteIt's "couldn't care less".
"Could care less" is usually American English, "couldn't care less" is British English. Same language, different dialect. Personally I find it contradictory and annoying but it is an accepted use of the phrase.
Delete-Casa
I must admit, I cringed at that as well.
DeleteIf I had to assign a number to how much I care about this discussion, it would not be zero. If it were zero, then I would not have posted bothered posting here and could truthfully claim to that "I couldn't care less". But if I had posted here claiming that "I couldn't care less", then you would know that I was either ignorant, dishonest, or both, because one does not bother to post when one's degree of caring is zero.
DeleteWow I didn't proofread that post very well - I guess I couldn't care less!
Deleteif highsec carebears spent as much time learning about how to play eve as we spend deciding the most proper use of "could care less/couldnt care less" we would all agree that eve was set to survive to infinity.
Deletecould care less - its possible i could care less, even if its not probable.
couldnt care less - i do not have the ability to care any less. i care none.
New players are not scared sheeps. I don't know why every carebear pictures the mythical "new player" as a weak individual who needs perfect safety. Many new players you see in help chat are coming for the cold, harsh world they heard about. The want to experience challenges, victories and defeats. They fundamentally want to have fun with other people.
ReplyDeleteI think that an active, dangerous high sec would hook a lot more new players than mining or missioning. I heard many times from EVE quitters that "the game is boring, you just click and there's nothing to do". The safe highsec - dead lowsec situation we have now is giving the impression to many new competitive players that the game is dull and boring, so they quit.
I started playing this game because of all the videos and promos I saw of a cold harsh universe where another player could attack me at any time. I remember my heart skipping a few beats every time I would undock. No I know the truth. There is virtually no chance anyone would ever shoot my main. Unless I send him into a wormhole or lowsec there is virtually no danger. Everything I fly is either too cheap to be worth it or too tanked to be easily ganked. As long as I don't AP with a hold full of cargo, or mine without a permit, I am almost completely safe. And bored.
DeleteThat is probably why I've now turned to a life of space crime. Ganking, piracy, awoxing, its a good space life.
Preach it, o' Savior of Highsec! This is why you were elected the leader of all Empire! Please continue to tell it like it is, and back-hand the EVE community with periodic reality checks.
ReplyDelete-Galaxy Pig
Here is my 2 cents worth:
ReplyDeleteSeeing how CCP has the power to nerf high sec or make changes to it to suit their business model, and have chosen to have it this way, then you either adapt to the conditions or retire from the game. I was near quitting just because of the "same old ratting, boring old mining and worse yet industry/market stuff. Whining about "Extortion" or other things is pointless as long as it is part of the game the developers allow.
Being self employed for many many years, I know that if CCP thought what was happening was detrimental to their business they would change it.
Now since they haven't, What next to exploit?
EVE is not a game to CCP
ReplyDeleteActually it is, and that's why it's so different and yet successful compared with the other MMORPGs. The day they started seeing a cashcow instead of a game (NEX store) the had to fire 20% of their staff.
DeleteThe reason of the success of EVE is that it's been made by people with a real passion for videogames and in particular for the open pvp style of early Ultima Online. If the current team at CCP wants to keep EVE going strong for the years to come, they must not forget the roots of the game.
I hope you are right, because the game has now became fun since I started thinking about it differently. It's all about wealth accumulation by any means necessary.
ReplyDeleteSo now I am a "wiseguy"
But when the game fails to make a profit as a business from CCP's standpoint, it will cease to exist, and that would be a shame.
Sole
I've wondered how long it would take these 'crybears' to stop crying and actually put forth some effort into understanding the game they cry so much about. But, then they would have to read... and actually apply themselves...
ReplyDeleteI'm surprised this wasn't pointed out in the Local chat... but high-sec has been nerfed 2351230952315 times. If people are still demanding a safer high-sec, this truly is not the game for them and they need to quit. And, I'm not trying to mean, I'm being truthful.
New players, rules to live by:
1. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose.
2. When you undock you are consenting to PvP.
3. ...It's probably a scram, or a trap (ITS A TRAP)
4. Eve = =/= = Everyone Vs. Everyone.
5. Mining for ISK (to right click sell at station)to buy Plex is, in fact, the worst way to go.
I cannot stand when people cry about "CCP losing new players and subscriptions because hisec isn't perfectly safe" Why do carebears care so much about CCP making money, and have they not noticed that eve has been around and steadily growing more than most if not all other MMO's. I wonder how EVE survived it's first 5 years or so without thousands of dumb ass noobies playing a single player game in hisec. Hisec needs to be removed entirely or just surrender itself to the New Order, for the good of the game as a whole. People are here for the unique emergent gameplay, not for eve's notoriously bad PVE/mining/solo hisec activities. And if their not they will likely find them selves being ridiculed on this site and then running back to WoW. EVE needs James 315, much more than these lazy, ignorant crybears realize.
ReplyDeleteIt's also a shame that new players often find themselves in corps/alliances that preach this type of gameplay. When I first started I was lured into a shit hisec pve corp with promises of low sec and explosions. I ran missions for 1 month and quit eve. I stumbled into lowsec in my trusty newbie kestrel and my entire corp spent the better part of an hour trying to safely extract my <1mil isk frigate from a lowsec entry point. Needless to say I returned after my "break" and moved to lowsec and started a pvp corp, which I am still in today (over 2 years now) while every other member of the carebear corp has long since quit eve for good. Hisec seems to lure in the ignorant, lazy and uncommited. Sadly for many noobs they think thi is the only option they have and that they must run missions and/or mine forever, constantly trying to upgrade their ships so they can do these same activities faster. EVE would be imesurably better without these fools and I hope our Protector and Savior can wake them up, or at the very least cause the worst of the bunch to rage quit.
DeleteI think to be fair part of the problem lies with the image of lowsec. Rookie Chat tells you it's the most dangerous thing ever, the CONCORD warning tells you you are going to die horribly as soon as you jump.
DeletePeople will fly around high sec in a 2bn mission ship, but won't go to lowsec in a 0.5mil frigate because they might lose it, which makes them loss averse.
I don't think nerfing high sec alone will work, I think lowsec just needs to be portrayed more realistically.
But then what James wants is for pirates to have a really easy time finding and blapping you with practically no penalty, which will ironically justify the warnings currently given. So yeah, I think both James and CCP are wrong.
Arguing with people over the internet is 110% certain to increase your satisfaction in life and overall well-being!
ReplyDeleteIjin share ya, semoga bermanfaatCara Menyembuhkan Bintitan Obat Radang Usus Kronis Cara Mengatasi Sering Buang Air Kecil Cara Mengobati Fistula Ani Obat Muntaber
ReplyDelete