Don't let the title of this post mislead you. This isn't a post about skill training; it's about how to train miners to mine properly.
I came across an ice miner in highsec. She appeared oblivious to my presence. Another teachable moment!
The new recruit started chatting from her alt, telling me what to do. Rookies, am I right?
As the locals became aware that the Sultan of Bump was in the system, they gathered around to ask questions about the Code. I guess they've learned by now that you can't trust a space lawyer to interpret the rules. You need an expert.
Never underestimate the importance of the face-to-face interaction. Ninety-nine percent of questions about the Code are answerable simply by reading the Code. But people always want to hear it from a person.
My approach is simple and compassionate. I give them the answer, if I feel like it, and afterward I remind them to reread their copy of the Code.
It amuses me when miners think they can tell me how to do my job. After all, I don't tell them how to mine. Although, I do tell them how to mine. That's part of my job.
It takes two things to be a good highsec detective: Instincts and experience. I've got both, so when I bump someone, you can reasonably assume the perp is guilty.
...Case in point.
It's a classic trope to have the hero walk into the sunset after he saves the day. In EVE, you can spin the camera angle around and have your ship fly toward the system's star whenever you want. This is useful for me, because I often save the day multiple times within a 24-hour period.
Meanwhile, space lawyer-aspirant Arcaliel Veryamahtar wanted me to run through hypotheticals.
As long as they're reasonable, I'm not unwilling to entertain these kinds of scenarios.
I think people make a mistake when they consider theoretical life-and-death choices between following the Code or saving their roommate's life. By all means, leave your keyboard for a few seconds and save someone's life. But you've still violated the Code, and you still owe me 10 million isk. Afterward, you can ask me for a pardon, or you can ask your roommate to reimburse you.
The phrase "tough, but fair" gets thrown around a lot when people describe me. Actually, I'm a big ol' softy. I don't Red Pen nearly as many miners as I could.
That having been said, I am the Father of the New Order. Miners can't give excuses for not noticing my presence in a belt, like they could with some of the lesser-known or new Agents.
I still remember what it was like to be a new player, so I always take great care when dealing with them. I want them to feel welcome in highsec. So I say "welcome", and I send them a link to a website where they can download a copy of the Code for free.
Holy christ, you really are full of yourself.
ReplyDeleteThis comment will probably be deleted, lest I question your sparkly shine. Fact of the matter is, you read like a cult leader, and your extortion scheme is straight out of the crazy-cult-leader-handbook.
Why would he delete such a teary post?
DeleteBobbins is back, it seems.
DeleteLol why should he delete it? That kind of posts are the most precious :D
DeleteBJ - Could you provide a copy of this "crazy-cult-leader-handbook"?
ReplyDeleteIs this a book youve written yourself?
Its lovely the way you blast off your post by invoking the name of a Christian icon, then immediately proceed to insult someone. Thats surely a great way to demonstrate your religious belief and understanding.
Obviously you dont read any of the background postings of a high traffic website such as this ( who could expect you to, with all the time you spend throwing around baseless accusations and ignorant insults) The New Order, www.minerbumping.com, AND James do not stifle opinions. Your post will not be deleted, it is too valuable a learning tool for future generations about how NOT to act on someone elses website.
We all appreciate your fervor, especially in the harsh spotlight of your own improprieties, but James remains sparkly shiny and you resemble at best....an unpolished turd.
Firstly, I'm not religious. Science holds far more allure.
DeleteSecondly, religion is hogwash. Faith is healthy. Religion is institutionalizing faith for the purposes of exploitation. (A lot like the New Order does).
Thirdly, James isn't sparkly and shiny, he just doesn't respond to any counter argument replies, regardless of how logical and healthy the post is. There's examples all over the internet, but my personal favourite is at the bottom of this thread:
http://www.minerbumping.com/2013/01/how-new-order-protects-your-democracy.html
A professor of political science at EOU effectively destroys his entire argument, and he sends a lacky to insult the miss-spelling of one word in the entire post. Really showing his "mature" side there. :)
As for how to act on someone else's website? Well, it's the internet right? Anyone can do as they please, really, including James. But if he's going to spew lies, cult rhetoric, propaganda, police state-mentality , anti-democratic autocratic malarkey than he can damn well expect that people will have something to say about it.
Now, of course all of you are going to deny these things because that is your right as a human being to have an opinion, but your argument will be based on a biased opinion of your standing within this "New Order."
The question is: Do you have enough respect and courtesy left in you to respect the opinions and thoughts of others, rather than push your belief system ("The Code") on them? Thus far, you have seen fit to use bullying to push your belief on others, so history suggests you do not. I await being proven wrong on this point with actions, not words.
Oh, and P.S. I'm still waiting for an entire post on this site dedicated to me. Maybe I'm not trying hard enough?
You don't seem to embrace that "respecting opinions of others" thing very well. Hypocrite.
DeleteAlso it's hilarious that you beleive someon is a professor just because he wrote it on the internet, despite writing with no paragraphs like a kid and missing the point repeatedly.
DeleteBranden Jensen, in the responses to the post you cite, your professor spelled his own name incorrectly, twice.
Deletehttps://people.eou.edu/directory/?q=dense
I'm not suggesting that this proves the authenticity of the poster one way or the other, nor does it necessarily invalidate his "argument" - but it is pretty funny.
He also posted from an iPad, so autocorrect is a bugger, as is being diligent about paragraph structure when typing on tablets and phones.
DeleteYet, both of these are character attacks on a person who made a valid point, regardless of his identity.
For all we know, he's a student in that class, using his professor's info as an alias. The same argument can be used for anyone who posts online.
Oh, and Anonymous #3,655,243,234,123...you don't even have enough respect for yourself to post as a person. You hide behind anonymity.
That being said, I'll respond to your "respecting opinions of others" with this: How is James and the "New Order" respecting the opinions of others? They don't. They fly into a system and make demands, threaten, and even accuse legitimate players of being bots with no respect towards that players thoughts or opinions.
They don't offer anything in return for the money they are bullying out of people, and claim benevolence because they stopped bumping and ganking the person after they have payed them.
So if you want to throw an argument in my face, you would be better suited to do so from an unbiased standpoint, with facts to back it up. I tried to be fair, understanding, and reasonable with 3 members of the "New Order" 2 nights ago, and instead they started acting like smartass children. I even e-mailed James and advised him that respect is a 2-way street. If you want mine, you have to give me yours.
I guess because I hadn't included insults, profanity and whining that it didn't rank high enough on his list for reply or posting on here.
The name thing is still pretty funny though, right?
DeleteI just looked at the post from back in January and Hey! Who you callin' a lacky?
DeleteNow, as far as "destroying his argument"....
James' argument is this.
"Follow The Code or bump."
Disagree? Well, that, of course, is your right...
then BLAP! And that is our right.
Branden Jensen, is that your real name? Because if it isn't, then you're anonymus too. If you mean EVE names, I can't provide one as i don't have an EVE account at the moment, I just follow this blog.
DeleteYou're missing the point. Respecting opionions has nothing to do with EVE gameplay. James 315 do what he does respecting the rules of EVE, that's all. Please understand that you're talking about a videogame where imposing your will over others is expected and encouraged. You're welcome ot defend yourself in game if you don't like it. It's the beauty of the sandbox. You guys talk about morality and real world examples because you miss this single point.
And about your claim that the New Order provides nothing to the mining community:
An AFK miner mine endlessly without attending his ship. He makes no effort for defending it and mines a lot of ore. That's his choice. He doesn't interact with anyone because he's not there. He provides nothing for the community. When he finds out his ship exploded, he's angry because he expects to have a level of safety that the game didn't intend for him to have. I have no sympathy for him.
But the important part is that the massive amounts of ore he injects into the marked devalue ore. He sells so much that the ore price goes down. With his 23/7 mining he hurts the whole mining community, that gets less ISK for their ore.
The New Order kills AFK miners. The compliant miners are at the keyboard, so they chat with others, they provide boosts, they don't rage because they're nice and smart individuals and in the end they make more isk because they ore is worth more ISK now that AFK miners can't mine anymore. Please, talk with miners who like the New Order and ask them why they're satisfied. If you're truly honest about the matter you should.
EVE requires you to have an open mind. It encourages player interactions, even interactions based on dominance over others. It's the beauty of the sandbox. Players have tools to conquer, fight, defend themselves. Don't be one of those people who judges the persons behind the keyoboard. This is a role playing game, and you're criticizing role players as if they were acting in real life. It's a mistake.
But back to the point, the New Order actually makes mining better for miners who mine at the keyboard for shorter amounts of time. And it provides consequences to the players who believe they shouldn't suffer any, because they don't understand the game they're playing.
I encourage you again to talk with miners who understand and like the New Order. You will see that the rebels don't represent the "people", just a vocal minority who doesn't get role playing in a MMORPG and freedom of interaction in a sandbox.
Sorry for the length and for the typos.
Deletetl,dr: removing AFK miners from belts make the good miners who stay at the keyboard and interact with others richer by increasing the value of the ore they mine. AFK miners hurt other miners with their unfair competition. The New Order provides them consequences. The New Order is good and smart miners know it.
First of all, yes. That's my real name. I don't need to hide behind an alias, because I don't fear people on the internet, and I'm proud of my opinions and statements.
DeleteAs far as the rest, you're right, it is a game. I treat it as such.
Sure, I get pissed when some stuff happens, but I fully recognize that this is a sandbox environment. That doesn't mean that my personal thoughts and opinions don't seep into every character I play.
If I don't care for certain behaviour IRL, I'm probably not going to care for it in a video game either. I'm a person of integrity, so that's just in my nature.
As for bot miners, if they are saturating the market with mats and making prices drop, that benefits plenty of people. Like the ones that want to be able to afford nice stuff. Truthfully, it's one of the tenets of consumerism, and if you expect that not to soak into a game like Eve, you're kidding yourself.
In terms of "AFK miners", well there's 2 types in my opinion.
You have those who set up to mine and walk away for 20+ minutes it takes to fill various ore holds.
Then you have those who step AFK for a bio, to grab a drink, answer the door, ask their family member a question, or whatever short and menial task they must perform.
I don't support dumping those this latter group being persecuted, because they're just being human.
As for the former types who bot or AFK for the entire length of their hold filling up, I could care less if you gank or bump them.
What it comes down to, is that I wouldn't have an issue with the "New Order" and I would fully support them and their endeavors if they were willing to make fair changes, and show some respect towards highsec players. Because right now, their whole mentality is pretty much akin to how the Brits and Spaniards treated Native Indians.
"Oh, you're primitive and don't know how to take care of yourself. Let us come in and teach you how to live the 'right' way. And if you disagree with us, we'll kill every one of you."
*I don't support those in this latter group being persecuted, because they're just being human.
DeleteOh, and for Bing, let's not beat around the bush man. Even if you guys are role playing, you're still role playing a lackey.
DeleteFrom a strictly RP perspective, James is can be quantified as the charismatic bad guy who convinces others to follow and do his evil bidding. He segregates people into castes like "gankers" and "bot miners." Then he points in the direction he wants his man-servants to walk and says "do my bidding."
If you watched a movie with that kind of guy in it, rooting for him would quite obviously be cheering on the bad guy. Frankly, there have been people like that in human history, and the whole world absolutely knows they are bad guys. So you can't logically argue that he isn't at the very least role playing a bad guy, and you are one of his lackeys.
No bad guys involved around here. You say you get this is a game, but you don't judging by what you say. You talk about "persecution", while you should talk about ganking and bumping. No one is being persecuted.
DeletePlayers decide to join this game. No one forces them. This game is based on free interactions, "good" or "bad". If you don't like being ganked or bumped, you have the tools to do something about it. Real world morals have no place here. We have EULA as a set of rules to follow. You can go by your morals if you want, but you can't judge others if they don't, because they are playing the game in a perfectly accepted way. EVE is this way by design.
If someone doesn't agree with what other players do in the game, they're free to oppose them in game or decide that this is not the game for them. Talking about persecution and violence is silly, as having your ship destroyed or bumped because you were AFK or because you failed to defend yourself is simply losing a "match" in the game, like being killed in Call of Duty. And never forget we're talking about internet ships in a game designed this way, a game you decided to join.
CCP has been clear. Harrassing someone means targeting someone in particular by following him wherever he goes, even when he makes an effort to at least change system. Nothing else. We're talking about miners who repeatedly mine in the same system expecting a safety they don't have by design. They are being ganked or bumped because they don't use the tools they have at their disposal to defend themselves from other players who play the game as the miner bumpers/gankers, and they have every right to do it.
You're free to not like them, but then you should dislike the game, not the players: they're not doing anything forbidden by the games rules, they're out-playing other players who agreed to being subject to the possibility of losing. In a videogame.
Jeff Dent - Jeff Dense
DeleteIn my heart, I know that's funny. I will be sending this story to Reader's Digest.
Ok Fawn, it is a little funny. :P
DeleteAs for Mr. Anon, you say no one is being persecuted, yet the entire "code" of "New Order" is centered around picking on highsec miners simply because they choose the "relative" safety of highsec over the obvious dangers of mining in lowsec and nullsec.
Here's some definitions of the word persecute:
1. to pursue with harassing or oppressive treatment, especially because of religion, race, or beliefs; harass persistently.
2. to annoy or trouble persistently.
3. a program or campaign to exterminate, drive away, or subjugate a people because of their religion, race, or beliefs.
Highsec miners like mining, and like highsec, and don't believe in having to run out into the jaws of death out in low/nullsec just to accomplish their goals. They are being "exterminated, driven away and/or subjugated" under the "Code" of the "New Order."
There's no two ways about it man, it's persecution.
Now, if you want to try arguing that persecuting players for their choices or beliefs in a video game somehow is outside the qualifications for "good" and "bad", well I have to disappoint you there.
Good and bad, in terms of actions in a society (which Eve most certainly qualifies as) can be defined easiest by how those actions affect those around you, or the other members of the society.
Now, by that very reasonable definition, bot miners are certainly bad if the greater percent of the society feels they are a detriment to the society (weakening the economy, etc). But likewise, gankers who target legitimate miners can be seen as bad by that same society when they target valuable members of the society, rather than those members which cause harm to the society.
Now, I'm going to state with absolute clarity. Regardless of my opinion, I'm not debating whether or not they should continue to do what they do. I have an opinion on what they should do, however that opinion is biased based on how I like to play Eve. I am, however, debating where this whole malarkey falls in honesty and morality, because you can't ride a camel and call it a zebra anymore than you can gank someone and claim you're helping them or anyone else. You're just fooling yourself at that point.
The miners are "annoyed or troubled persistently" like you said because they don't adapt to the game rules and don't act to defend themselves. They could just CHANGE SYSTEM but they don't. Really it's simple. They're just victims of themselves. They deserve everything they get and more, like someone who doesn't know how to move a bishop deserves to lose at chess. Would you say someone is immoral because he destroys onother guy at chess? It's the same, players willingly sit at the table and accept defeat.
DeleteHigh Sec is not total safety, the New Order provides yhe consequences this game needs for the good fo everyone, in High Sec or otherwise. They can desire safety as much as they want but this game doesn't provide it, even in High Sec. It would be like desiring to have four queens in a chess game.
Think about it: they could just change system to avoid this but they don't they just insult other players who play the game legally. They don't make any effort to defend themsleves in the game, they just petition or ask for nerfs.
Mining undisturbed is not a right, it's something you have to acquire in the game by playing it right. Do they really deserve sympathy?
I have to add that my friends and I have been targeted repeatedly, in multiple systems, on the same night, by members of the New Order.
DeleteThis past Tuesday, we were mining ice, minding our own business, when a couple "Knights of the New Order" showed up in their Catalysts. They made no attempt to contact us, to ask if we were compliant. They simply circled ominously. They specifically targeted my buddy, in a Hulk, repeatedly entering the belt, and flying around him, and then leaving. They did this several times.
Finally, 5 of them showed up, and attempted to gank his ship. Fortunately, they were really bad at their job, and didn't realize that the Hulk is a good unit. In short, they failed miserably.
We were mining undisturbed, in the belt, chit chatting with some locals. Granted, one of the guys in my fleet was talking some serious shit to an agent of yours who was apparently trying to collect in the asteroid belts, but he was not the one who was targeted by the group of Knights.
You say that we have to acquire the right to mine undisturbed. By that you mean that we have to follow "THE CODE," a piece of literature entirely designed and made up by one of the most arrogant players that I've come across in the Eve Universe. The same man who labeled himself, in paraphrase, as the father and designer of the modern titan.
I do not recognize your "Code" as a part of Eve that I must follow in order to mine.
However, what you say about having a right to gank us is true. You have a right to waste your time, money, and effort on ganking, just to see it all amount to nothing, as we continue to make profit mining Hi-sec. Even if I lose one Covetor, I can replace it without problem, just as you can replace your Catalysts without problem. If a friend loses a Hulk or Mackinaw to you, I'd gladly spend the 10 million for a permit on getting him a new Exhumer, instead of giving it to you, and we could do it, in no time at all.
The New Order will eventually fade and disappear, but Hi-sec miners... We will exist as long as Eve is a game that we can afford to play.
Sorry, but your chess analogy bares no logic or substance.
DeleteChess is an isolinear board game in which the sole purpose for the 2 players is to take out the other's King.
Eve is a pseudo-non-linear digital game in which players get to pick from a variety of professions, ships, equipment and locations. There's just no reasonable comparison of the two.
You're right that highsec isn't total safety. It is a higher level of safety. But don't kid yourself to suggest that the "New Order" would have the guts to peddle their "Code" in low/nullsec. They wouldn't get far.
Now you hit on an important detail there: "The New Order provides the consequences this game needs..." The "consequences" of players choosing to mine in highsec? The "consequences" of players not enjoying PVP? So what you're saying is that in a sandbox environment, where anything is possible, you don't want people to choose not to PVP, or choose mining in highsec? That's very ignoble of you.
You also insist that changing systems is in some way an effective tactic. If the New Order had their way, they would span the entirety of highsec, so that suggestion is a failure of logic. Then you suggest defending themselves...well...how do you defend yourself in highsec? You can tank your ship, but that isn't an absolute. You can't fire first, because then you get hit by Concord. So best case scenario you need to have a second account running either a fit to boost your defense (in which case you hope he doesn't get targeted), or a fit to counter-attack and hopefully slow the enemy assault.
The problem with both tactics is that New Order gankers run in groups, so neither is likely to be exceptionally effective.
For your final question there, anyone being persecuted deserves sympathy. It's their right as a human being.
Branden,
DeleteYou seem like you are trying to understand why we do what we do. Your attempt to slot us into "good" and "bad" is an attempt to correlate our actions with their results and, I think, simplistically make it coincide with your real world views.
I am going to let you in on something that is actually already available to you but you probably did not know to look for. If you look at the items I am going to list here you will find out that we are, in fact, the good guys. Although our methods seem to involve fear and coercion of innocent miners we are, in reality, attempting to prevent the game, Eve, from being damaged or even destroyed by a set of players who have attempted to put their own, self-serving, set of rules into place, mainly through the use of complaints to CCP.
The demands by the highsec carebears, especially the miners, have led to numerous nerfs to aggression in the game and we have said, "Enough". Our methods are a combination of using the carebears own demanded nerfs against them while pushing the situation to obviously ridiculous extremes (really? Killing space ships in Eve is bad?)to make it obvious to everyone, including CCP, that things have gone very wrong.
A large number of miners think it is perfectly reasonable to expect that they can park next to an ice block, start their lasers and then go do the laundry. Well, it isn't. Not yet anyway. If we are unsuccessful, then maybe that will be the future of Eve. So far at least, we seem to be winning. Or at least stopping the losing.
Up there at the top is the LINKS tab. In there you will find a series of articles by James 315, beginning with
"Let me tell you why people are killing highsec miners. A manifesto." https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=40762
Read those and you will at least begin to understand us.
Bing Bangboom
Agent of the New Order of Highsec
Belligerent Lacky
You seem like an intelligent person Bing, and I respect that.
DeleteYou also seem to have an altruistic perspective on why you guys do what you do. If it were that simple, I would quite possibly be supporting you, however the methods of the "New Order" don't imply altruistic intent.
Actions speak louder than words, and right now your actions imply a blatant disrespect for anyone who calls themselves a miner in highsec.
The "New Order" doesn't care if you're a bot miner, AFK miner, or someone who sits at their computer monitoring their progress 45 seconds of every minute. Your organization doesn't show any regard for those who limit their mining, or even any care as to whether there are miners who respect the resources by not stripping them bare at every opportunity.
Now, if you truly believe that further antagonizing the miners who you claim are the cause for so many negative changes to the game, than that is certainly your prerogative to maintain that opinion. However, perhaps you should consider that the complaints and changes were made because the miners wanted to be left alone in highsec to their carebear ways, rather than be antagonized by ganker trolls.
This game is supposed to support almost any gameplay style people want to indulge, and for some that doesn't involve PvP. They're "creators", not "destroyers." Call them carebears if you want, but they're not hurting you and your like until you attack or provoke them.
Frankly, I think you guys would receive a much greater percentage of "compliance" if you reconsidered some of your methods.
I agree bot miners are an issue, and I agree that someone who walks away from their computer for the full length of their mining is an idiot, but I don't agree with a "reply within 5 seconds or I bump and/or nuke you."
Try messaging pilots and giving them a fair time, like 2-5 minutes to reply. Then you're actually showing some level of benevolence and care for the people you are claiming to try to "help."
For that matter, try actually protecting the miners from gankers, rather than telling them "suck it up and thank the guy." Hell, you could even recommend the optimal tank fits for each class and post them up here with info on how effective they are.
"The "New Order" doesn't care if you're a bot miner, AFK miner, or someone who sits at their computer monitoring their progress 45 seconds of every minute."
DeleteYes they do. You're simply wrong as to facts; further discussion when the facts are in dispute is not productive.
"Try messaging pilots and giving them a fair time, like 2-5 minutes to reply. "
5 minutes to reply? ROFL, you're delusional.
"For that matter, try actually protecting the miners from gankers, rather than telling them "suck it up and thank the guy." Hell, you could even recommend the optimal tank fits for each class and post them up here with info on how effective they are."
If you think this is a worthy goal, why don't you do it yourself on your own website, instead of posting on the internet asking strangers to accomplish your goal for you? Apparently you're just another typical carebear.
You're a troll, Rasputin, but let it never be said that I cower from a battle of wits, even if my opponent is woefully outgunned.
DeleteThis site is littered with examples of the "New Order's" disregard for all forms of miner. They consider everyone in highsec to be incapable of thinking or acting of their own accord, and are simply lost in the mindless act of mining.
I said "2-5" minutes, not "5 minutes." If you're going to point out the folly of a suggestion, don't focus on the aspect you dislike, and ignore the aspect you have no quarrel with.
Firstly, I don't pretend that I know what a good tank fit is for a mining vessel.
Secondly, try reading what I typed. The "New Order" claims that they are trying to help people, trying to be benevolent, blah blah blah. I'm not the one trying to impose my will on people under the guise of "enlightenment."
If you're going to impose your religion on someone, at least help than build the church.
*them
Delete"You're a troll, Rasputin"
Delete#1 defense of the troll: start calling others trolls first, before one's own trollishness is noticed. Unfortunately, the fact that you're a troll was obvious as your first comment here was a textbook troll of the site owner, so your stratagem is a total failure.
"I said "2-5" minutes, not "5 minutes." If you're going to point out the folly of a suggestion, don't focus on the aspect you dislike, and ignore the aspect you have no quarrel with."
That's really bad advice. I'm going to keep focusing on the aspects I dislike, when pointing out the folly of your suggestions--but thanks for trying to help, even though I'm completely ignoring your suggestion due to it being utterly horrible.
"Secondly, try reading what I typed. The "New Order" claims that they are trying to help people, trying to be benevolent, blah blah blah."
Try reading what I typed, actually, since your lack of comprehension is the problem here. The New Order believes in highsec miners, by attempting to convince them to stop mining. Your ideas are wholly incompatible with these beliefs, and thus, if you want to help people according to your vision of what "help" means, you should do it yourself.
So your strongest argument is "I'm rubber, your glue..."? How very mature, Rasputin.
DeleteYou are welcome to your opinion on what I say, but just because it's your opinion, doesn't make it right.
As for this:
"The New Order believes in highsec miners, by attempting to convince them to stop mining."
That's not a "belief in highsec miners", That's a belief that highsec miners shouldn't exist. You are persecuting people for their non-violent, non-disruptive choice of gameplay.
Maybe you should hand this conversation over to James or Bing. They have a much larger vocabulary, so they're better at mincing words, and you aren't exactly dancing the mambo with your linguistic skills.
Application of the term troll is subjective. Some readers may characterize a post as trolling, while others may regard the same post as a legitimate contribution to the discussion, even if controversial. Like any pejorative term, it can be used as an ad hominem attack, suggesting a negative motivation.
Delete-From a Wikipedia article on "troll" (internet)
If you want to have a conversation, you have to put aside your differences and realise that the OP has the right to opinion. Please allow me to add though, that at this point neither side is really of any better mettle or standing due to the fact that this thread is now essentially a Pissing match.
The scary thing that I think James 315 should take heed of is the fact that those that are in his service, do him no justice now in said contest.
Look at the literature on this website. Each and every instance of recognition within these now hallowed halls is that of benevolence. In every interaction that James so wonderfully displays upon this site, you see the interactions between "Carebear" and "Knight" as an exchange that shows just how positive the New Order is, and why it should continue to be so. This is not in fact my Opinion. This is fact. it is displayed. if you disagree, you disagree with James 315...
Now look at this string of nonsense, riddled with harsh tone, and underlying hatred. Why are you not representing the Code as you are supposed to be if you are an advocate of it, and what James 315 means to Highsec, and to you?
There is obviously a failure somewhere along the logistical pathway that is The New Order, because if you Believe, you Believe. There is no wavering. If you don't you are no better than those "Carebears" out there you loath so much.
I would comment further on this Mr. Jensen, but as he is a "Carebear" himself I will Continue on my merry way.
I see Potential in what is here, but no consistancy.
The Definition at the top of this post? You think about it, just a little bit, before you respond just like you already have. think about James... Think about Me. Think about Super Mario 64... Whatever it is you prefer. Just think.
Cheers,
The fact that someone still beleives that disrupting someone else's gameplay in a game built around the concept of giving the possibility to players to disrupt someone else's gameplay truly amuses me. We're talking about nothing.
DeleteThe sandbox is not a collection of minigames where anyone can make his little personal castle undisturbed. It's a place where players can build castles and destroy them, and both the players are contributing equally to the game. But the real beauty of the game is giving the possibility to players like James to create something big, if they're able to pull it off. Anyone who criticizes James should read his articles first, and then jusge. Not skimming through them, reading them.
Nothing in EVE is truly yours if you're not able to defend it from other players. Not ISK, not ships, not time, not playstyles. This the basis of EVE online the game.
I am absolutely a carebear in Eve. :D
DeletePvP is a daunting undertaking. Hardcore on levels no other games really accomplish.
As for the "exchanges" between two opposing parties that posted on here, well...every campaign needs propaganda. If there were truly so many miners that foamed at the mouth and spewed vitriol, I suspect this site would have multiple articles per day.
What I don't really see, is larger quantities of people praising the "New Order." If anything, there's more articles about people who fight against the "New Order", in which case: Take a clue.
*that are posted
Delete"Anyone who criticizes James should read his articles first, and then jusge. Not skimming through them, reading them."
DeleteI'm feeling a bit cheeky here so i will ask. Are you refering to me?
If not then I will go back to my apple.
Nope, I were talking in general. I meant that James' strong opinions come from very deep reasoning, and his articles show it.
DeleteI'm fine if someone disagrees with him, but I think he should read his articles before forming an opinion about him.
Dear Anonymous,
DeleteEven sandboxes allow critical thinking. If you tell an analytically-driven person not to be critical of something, they will be critical of you and your motives.
P.S. Mr. Anonymous, why don't you want people to analyze and be critical of James? Are you James, hiding behind anonymity, or are you maybe his sister or brother, trying to protect him? Are you somebody who doesn't believe in freedom of thought? See! You made me want to analyze why you don't want people being critical of James. Now my brain won't stop! :(
"So your strongest argument is "I'm rubber, your glue..."? How very mature, Rasputin."
DeleteThat's quite immature, but they're your words, not mine :)
""The New Order believes in highsec miners, by attempting to convince them to stop mining."
That's not a "belief in highsec miners", That's a belief that highsec miners shouldn't exist."
Those are not mutually exclusive statements.
"Maybe you should hand this conversation over to James or Bing. They have a much larger vocabulary, so they're better at mincing words, and you aren't exactly dancing the mambo with your linguistic skills."
As I'm not trying to dance the mambo, your observation seems quite irrelevant, except as a method of understanding the source of your many logical errors. If you focused more on making correct statements, instead of florid elaboration, your arguments might make some sense.
"So your strongest argument is "I'm rubber, your glue..."? How very mature, Rasputin."
DeleteThat's quite immature, but they're your words, not mine :)
- hehe... really now?
""The New Order believes in highsec miners, by attempting to convince them to stop mining."
That's not a "belief in highsec miners", That's a belief that highsec miners shouldn't exist."
Those are not mutually exclusive statements.
mutually exclusive
Web definitions
contradictory: unable to be both true at the same time.
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
- I don't get this. Rasputin, am I misunderstanding something? you can tell me. It shouldn't hurt my feelings. Well ok it might, but again you're an agent so you only have the best of intentions, right?
As I'm not trying to dance the mambo, your observation seems quite irrelevant, except as a method of understanding the source of your many logical errors. If you focused more on making correct statements, instead of florid elaboration, your arguments might make some sense.
- Florid is such a lovely word. here is one for you.
Pharisee.
Want an apple?
I've got a quote for you Rasputin.
Delete"An education which does not cultivate the will is an education that depraves the mind." - Anatole France
Branden, why do you have such strong difficulties arguing with anonymous posters? Why do you care so much about a name that could be very well be fake? We're confronting ideas in a civil fashion, that is all that matters in a discussion.
DeleteWhen did I say anything about critical thinking? I feel like I'm talking to a wall. You didn't respond to any single point I made about EVE works.
I'm honoured you thought I could be James himself, but I'm just a blog reader and EVE fan.
1. I've only commented regarding the anonymity concern once.
Delete2. From the start I've been taking flak because I'm being critical of James 315, the "New Order" and "The Code."
3. I don't think you're James. Nice of you to only read words that you want to though. It was an example about why you don't tell analytical minds not to be critical of things, but I also implied you could be several other people.
James, can you answer a question I have about suicide ganking:
ReplyDeleteCan two gank-fit catalysts following the fit posted by Gladius in the comments secion on
http://www.minerbumping.com/2012/11/eve-fitting-tool-and-ganker-training.html
ie:
[Catalyst, Ganker]
Gauss Field Balancer I
Gauss Field Balancer I
Gauss Field Balancer I
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
Anode Light Neutron Particle Cannon I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Anode Light Neutron Particle Cannon I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Anode Light Neutron Particle Cannon I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Anode Light Neutron Particle Cannon I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Anode Light Neutron Particle Cannon I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Anode Light Neutron Particle Cannon I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Anode Light Neutron Particle Cannon I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Anode Light Neutron Particle Cannon I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
[empty rig slot]
successfully gank a single untanked Mackinaw in 0.5 space?
What would be useful for new Eve players wishing to follow your lead to have sample EHPs of the various mining ships, tanked and untanked, and sample DPS amounts for various gankfits.
You fail at EVE. May i suggest Solitaire?
DeleteThe short answer to your question is Yes, that will work, although it's pretty tight. (I'd want at least three gankers to be sure, and to go for the pod.) But if you are going to do ganks you really need to understand why it will work. That is, you need to learn how to use EFT to estimate target EHP (and get your own DPS, although you can also do that in-game if you have the fit actually instantiated). And how EHP and DPS relate, based on Concord's response. Please do read the articles in the Gank section of minerbumping, which link you can find at the top of each page here.
DeleteLook, James had a sad childhood collecting rocks instead of friends. That's why he's so pushy with his CODE. He's just protecting his pet rocks from thieves.
ReplyDeleteStop projecting, space psychologist!
DeleteIf he/she is a space psychologist then he/she is not projecting, but analyzing. I'd say Anonymous(12:10 AM)'s diagnosis is a more flattering/humanizing take on someone who is usually lambasted as an arrogant jerk with delusions of grandeur. As for me, (even as a blasphemous AFK miner) I just enjoy reading his hilarious nonsense.
Deleteahem.. while mining of course.
DeleteHe is indeed projecting, as accusing someone of having had a sad childhood because of a videogame contrast is a very sad thing to do.
DeleteAnonymous July 24, 2013 at 11:56 PM,
ReplyDeleteProbably. If you would like to talk about this kind of thing drop me a mail with your activity times and we'll get together and get you going.
I'm just glad that there are always people in Hi-Sec that are willing to contradict and countermand any New Order goons running around telling people to pay them isk to mine.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure you know this James, but as long as you perpetuate this farce of Hi-Sec ownership, there will be dedicated and persistent miners who will passionately oppose and troll both you and your agents at all times, defying your bumpers and gankers in any manner we can.
It's a shame that you've trained all your followers so well in regards to keeping their mouth shut, though there are a few who still rise to our bait from time to time. It's always more interesting when the smack talking occurs in both directions.
It's been over a year and all the opposition can come up with is to "smack talk" them back? Really?
DeleteSorry Bri, you're not much of a knight
Oh, don't worry. Drones don't smack talk at all.
DeleteThey just kill ganking catalysts.
I'm no miner, but if my friend were to collapse while I was playing a game and I left it immediately to help him I wouldn't be bothered if I returned to the game to find my character had been moved out of the area it was in.
ReplyDeleteBut as I say, I'm not a miner.
They value their veldspar more than they do their friends lives.
I like cake..
ReplyDelete