Even so, there are still miners in highsec who lag behind the curve. We'll call them "late adopters". When Agents loyalanon and 412nv Yaken discovered a yield-fit Mackinaw mining highsec ice, they saw an opportunity to help her upgrade.
The miner, Hardshaft, wasn't interested. She felt the destruction of her Mackinaw was a breach of protocol.
After barely more than two and a half years of highsec mining, Hardshaft wasn't yet prepared to defend herself against ganks. She felt she'd been blindsided.
loyalanon helpfully reminded the miner that EVE is a PvP game. As such, there's no reason to be upset when someone engages in PvP with you. But Hardshaft didn't see it as PvP.
There was no room for debate: loyalanon correctly characterized the battle as "small gang PvP"; two Catalysts versus a Mackinaw. This is a fine example of loyalanon's modesty and integrity. Others exaggerate their PvP prowess by calling a 2v1 "solo PvP". As Agents of the New Order know, solo PvP is strictly limited to 1v1 combat. The two gankers were a small gang.
loyalanon was beginning to see why it was taking Hardshaft so long to get with the times. She moved at a very slow pace. loyalanon had to explain what "PvP" stood for. Since both P's stand for the same word, our hero had a fighting chance of getting the miner to understand.
...A fighting chance is no guarantee. Agent 412nv Yaken, the other ganker, joined the convo, further improving the student-teacher ratio. They wanted the miner to have every advantage.
Back in the Dark Ages of highsec, before I started telling everyone what to do, all was in chaos. Each player comes to EVE with a different perspective on how the game should be played. Everyone has a different starting point, but now the players converge on a common endpoint, the Code.
The Code works wonders. Only a few minutes after being linked to it, Hardshaft finally realized she should've flown a tanked vessel. Our Agents were pleased by this breakthrough. However, Hardshaft was still struggling with math. She thought it was better to pay for 10 replacement Mackinaws than send 1 isk to an Agent. I wonder what the carebears would do if our Agents were the ones selling the Mackinaws, too?
Hardshaft made an abortive attempt to cite her Australian citizenship as a reason she didn't need a permit. Nothing doing. Nationalism is a thing of the past. The Code is the future. Our Agents' common bond transcends international boundaries. We're gankers without borders.
Despite receiving expert instruction from two experienced Agents and a practical demonstration of the New Order's power, Hardshaft wasn't ready to graduate. No one's in a hurry, though. Our Agents aren't satisfied with half-rescuing a miner. They'll spend as much time as it takes to get the job done right.
The Code ALWAYS Wins!!!!! ALWAYS!!!!
ReplyDeleteIt is only fitting that loyal should have the first comment on this blog post.
DeleteNope!
DeleteAnother very disturbing person who somehow manages to link internet spaceships with paedophilia. What the hell are these people on?
ReplyDelete"antiganker logic"
DeleteWhen miners die, poison seeps from their corpses into local, showing their true inner nature's, one they hide from the people around them. Happily james 315 (peace be upon him) provides a cure for their sickness and through his agents, removes these disease pockets from his high sec space so they are free to move their poison to null where gamma rays from the sun's and anti matter blasts from the owners cleanse it forever. Snig
DeleteI'd best not take the jam out of her doughnut.
DeleteSo cure is to kill everything you don't like?
DeleteDoes that apply to real world too?
You miss the point entirely, anon 11:35. The cure for hisec is holding these miners to a higher standard, ie. The Code.
DeleteAnd then killing them if they refuse.
Thankfully, we do not have the same issues with miners IRL that we do in Eve, so such steps are unnecessary in meatspace.
admiral root, it is right and logical to compare james315 and code to paedophiles.
DeletePaedophiles occupy a niche of especially hated individuals that prey on those least able to defend themselves. This is the niche that code fills in eve.
It takes a special kind of sick group to establish a website dedicated to posting the dialogue of players that have just been ganked.
Why do you treat miners as if they were developmentally challenged? What's what it means, to treat adults as if they were no more capable of speaking for or defending themselves than irl children. Have you no respect for your fellow carebears?
DeletePvP, in the miner sense: "Player versus pyerite". Maybe that was where the confusion arose?
ReplyDelete....or "Player versus Pyroxeres"!
DeleteI am honoured Agent DJ Entropy to embark on a pvp crusade against the illegal and bot-aspirant miners.
ReplyDeleteyou guys do a lot of great stuff, and provide some neato content in an area that really needs it (high sec)
ReplyDeleteTechnically you are engaged in small gang pvp. Technically. Just like technically if an MMA fighter went to a grade school sandbox and started roundhousing six year olds that could be called a 'fight'
You guys do a lot you can be proud of, but ganking this idiot's mackinaw, I kind of see his point in saying that that's no great shakes. Just wanted to get that off my chest.
Undocking in Eve is the equivalent to signing up for an MMA cage fight in your analogy. If you don't want to fight, stay docked. If you don't want to PVP, quit Eve. This is the reality of the game.
DeleteI wonder why everyone compares highsec miners with children. Do you have utterly no respect for your fellow players?
Deletethis is a somewhat valid extrapolation, I will grant. I perhaps cast things in a negative light with that analogy, making it perhaps too extreme in an effort to get my point across.
DeleteMiners in untanked barges afk'ing are weak, greedy, lazy, and deserve what they get.
I don't know, I'm just feeling a bit conflicted. I have been deluged with miner tears over the past few and perhaps its starting to leave a bit of a bitter taste in my mouth.
I demanded a 'gf' in local, but I sort of felt it was not really good so much as terrible, with a foregone conclusion.
maybe I'm too much of a softie for this sort of work :( maybe I just need to htfu.
Anon 10.39,
DeleteYou're being too hard on yourself. Among the myriad of personality traits exhibited by members of the New Order is that which allows some of us to reflect deeply on our work.
But if we allow ourselves to return again and again to particular trains of thought, they become the focus of the work, supplanting the true objective and weakening our resolve.
You've taken your eye off the ball, that's all.
Our objective is not ganking, nor yet the generation of 'tears'. Our objective is the transformation of Highsec through the education of miners and other carebears. The Code is the instrument of achieving this.
You will find your own way of using that instrument. It may not be my way, nor yet the way of others you've seen represented here. That is one of the marvels of the work. The Code grants us the freedom to apply it in a way which matches our distinctive and innate qualities and characteristics.
You don't need to htfu Anon; you've been given the gift of reflection; just don't let it become deflection.
Comparing our agents to Mma fighters is an accurate comparison, thank you! Snig
ReplyDelete*the victorious MMA fighter, because the code always wins.
DeleteThe reason rebel miners don't recognize ganking as PvP seems to be because they don't recognize themselves as players. It is true that they are bot-aspirants and, thus, tip-toeing very close to that thin line between being man and machine. But, they are human--though on the lowest rung of humanity--so, they are a player. And, thus it is most definitely PvP.
ReplyDeleteOur job is a hard one, shaking these rebel miners out of their delusions.
No, the lowest rung of humanity is firmly in the grasp of tankers and the new order...
DeleteShooting at helpless ships that can't shoot back isn't PvP...it's just a pathetic turkey shoot. Kind of sad to see what the CODE is about these days.
ReplyDeleteVeers... PvP, lets break it down for you. PLAYER vs PLAYER. The above action was PVP. They guy in the mack obviously brought the wrong tools to the task, but that's HIS problem. Just like a guy bringing a knife to a gun fight... sucks to be him.
DeleteNow... let the adults continue, you go play with your red crosses like a good little Incursion runner.
The guy may not have even been at the keyboard. Player versus Player requires that both players are actually at the keyboard TRYING to win. A scrammed Mack with no chance of winning and not fighting back isn't Player versus Player, it's Player versus nothing.
Deleteand whos fault is it that hes not at the keyboard?
DeleteIrrelevent. It's still not PvP. And being at the keyboard would not have helped. Once a non-combat ship is tackles it is helpless.
DeleteVeers, I think you still don't get this game. PvP is not only about the combat.
DeleteThis guy decided to undock an untanked defenseless ship without permit and steal ore. That's when he actually made the mistake that cost him the fight and the ship.
PvP in EVE is not Arena PvP or some kind of setup fair fight. It is an integral part of the environment and it is sometimes hard to see when the fight actually starts.
Maybe some day you will learn that. Otherwise you will forever struggle with the game, shiptost on the forums and in the MB comments and try to change it because you don't understand it at all.
Sweet delicious ironic tears from veers: bravely defeating red crosses (although not in lowsec), whining about turkey shoots.
DeleteHow contemptible can he be...
Veers, I love that you agree with us! Yes, a player should be at their keyboard at all times- calling the other player nothing though, that's a little harsh even for you... Snigie
ReplyDeleteIf one guy is AFK it's not PvP, it's PvNothinh. Which is the vast majority of NO "elite PvP." Since even the folks at the keyboard have essentially no shot at winning given they are in non-combat vessels, that's also PvNothing.
DeleteWhat about the scarcity tank? I heard that's pretty good for non-combat vessels, you're not there.
Deleteis that like the dock up tank? The unsubscribe and play minecraft tank? The play on nullsec alts tank? Elite PvP all of them, eh?
DeleteI don't know, is it? You're the one who brought them up so it's up to you to determine if they are or not.
Delete9:29 is an obvious Veers.
DeleteExactly
DeleteThis is a PvP game. You undock, your playing PvP. Suck it up. It's your choice in what you fly... just be aware that some choices are wrong. Don't want to engage in PvP. Then don't undock.
ReplyDeleteWe choose to undock in PVP ships in a PVP game. Carebears and miners elect to undock in ships unfit to play the game with. They have access to the same ships we do.
DeleteThey are unworthy of our pity or respect, as they choose to be at the bottom of the food chain.
Thankfully Veers surrendered to my wardec. I would have hated wasting isk on ammunition. But then, wardecs don't make for PvP either do they Veers?
DeleteLove,
Myles Wong
I don't look for anything Veers. You assume I gank. I don't. I have. Tried it for a month or so, but it was not my thing and RL time issue ment curbing back my available game time.
DeleteEven though I don't gank, and admit to finding it a bit boring after awhile, I still support it. It is after all just a game. It's not a fair game, nor should it be. What I love about EVE is that it weeds out the weak.
You are weak. For all your howling and crying, ganking continues. Bumping continues, CODE. continues. Yes, yes.. I know a few people were banned... and I'm sure in your mind you believe you were the mastermind behind it all, but the fact remains that CODE is still here. There have been no bans for months... MONTHS! And those bans were not for GANKING or BUMPING.
Ganking is here to stay... cry all you want, rage all you want, the only thing you are accomplishing is providing entertainment to most... me, I just find you annoying.
Personally I think you should pull your head out of your ass and come up for air, but I doubt you will.
I believe Veers is finally getting tired, like a spent hot-air balloon, unable to ballast his opinions with logic... So sad to see what Veers has become.
DeleteIt is at this point that the mercy of James 315 reaches out to him... maybe this time he will let the CODE that he's been fighting for so long be his salvation...
gank = "gang kill"
ReplyDeleteWhat veers doesn't understand is this was about tear harvesting. If only we could pvp the mack, then proceed to a bonus room of some sort.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately for code - whether they realise it or not, they are lap dogs of ccp.
DeleteThe business model of ccp requires players to
A: lose ships
B: go broke
C: buy plex
Code is simply feeding the ccp machine.
Your website does shine a light on a ridiculously unbalanced part of the game.
The fact that 2 ships worth maybe 10mill between them can inflict, in this case a quarter of a billion is in losses (ship and implants) before concord does anything about it is pretty stupid.
But as I said, ccp likes it like this, so keep feeding the machine lap dog's.
Anon 9:59, you do realize that you just argued for isk-tanking?
DeleteIf a smaller/cheaper ship cannot defeat a larger/more expensive ship, it becomes impossible for a poor group of newbies to carve a place for themselves in the face of wealthy veterans.
A lot of carebears are perfectly fine with the thought of isk-tanking. For a mind obsessed with money and its acquisition, the thought that decadence could in and of itself buy safety is very appealing. Thankfully ccp is, whatever other shortcomings it's been displaying, smarter than that.
Delete290, yes, a gang of smaller ships should have a chance to take down expensive ships but in this case we are talking about only 2 pilots in cheap ships that require minimal skills to fit to a level that can inflict this kind of a loss in highsec.
DeleteMiners that are ganked rarely have the wrecks looted by the aggressor so there is absolutely no financial reason for the ganker to shoot a miner. It is all about shits and giggles.
At least when haulers are destroyed there is a decent chance of a financial reward.
High sec miner ganking clearly is good for ccp's bottom line.
See anon@11:32, here's what I don't get. Obviously all you care about is money; you're focused exclusively on the cost of the ships and characters being used, and the part of the gank you focus on is looting the wrecks afterwards. So money is what you care about, what you think about, and what you give importance to. But do you at least understand that other people can care about things other than money? You speak of "shits and giggles" in a derogatory way, as if there were something in some way distasteful about playing for fun instead of for profit. Are you aware that this is what you're signaling? Do you really feel this way?
DeleteCan someone truly be so greedy, so materialistic, so....so *bot-aspirant*, that they're incapable of viewing any playstyle not centered around the acquisition of wealth as legitimate?
Maria - surely you must be more intelligent than you appear. Although I feel like I am simply feeding a troll, I will make an exception in your case.
DeleteI was responding to 290's post who raised the issue of new players having a chance against veterans that enables them to acquire isk.
Shits and giggles is why we all play isn't it?
To return to your whining about isk, it's a fairly important part of the game, no isk equals eve poverty and options are limited, just like in real life.
But if you persist in living in a bohemian, hippy state of child -like fantasy that money, yes, even pretend money in a video game isn't important, I'm sorry, I can't help you.
It's "a bohemian, hippy state of child -like fantasy" to believe that imaginary spaceship money (with an exchange rate of about $15:850,000,000ISK) isn't important? It really, really isn't. I cannot even imagine the depths of bot-aspirancy to which you must have sunk, to not only believe that imaginary spaceship money is important, but that those who do not share your belief must be hippies.
DeletePlease, man, for your own sake: let go of your fixation on money. There's so much more to live for, or to play eve for. For starters, there's the Code. That's a much better focus for your life than vulgar money, particularly money which you could earn much more efficiently by mowing lawns and buying plex with the proceeds than you could ever earn in-game. So relax, have fun, stop worrying about isk....and get right with the Code. Speaking of which, as a symbol of your breaking the shackles of your bot-aspirancy, would you like to purchase a mining permit now? Only 10m isk/toon/year! I can promise you, you'll feel far happier and freer once you do.
Hi again Maria.
DeleteIf pretend money isn't important, why do keep bleating like a sheep about my 10 mill for a mining permit?
Why not issue them for free?
I have to stop posting here, I think I'm starting to like you.
Your conviction, your passion, your delusion, your tragic acceptance of a life of perpetual poverty.
Thats the real gold here.
I really do mean it when I say I like you though.
Hi again anon.
DeleteThere are many reasons why we charge for mining permits, some canonical (explained in the Code), some more conjectural. First, the canonical:
Though we don't much care about money, carebears do. While a ganker or a scammer could be trusted to commit to a course of action or an ideological creed simply on the basis of an intelligent conversation on the subject and a verbal commitment to the idea, carebears demonstrate over and over again that the main lens through which they view reality is money, profit, and loss. Charging for a mining permit helps a carebear commit to following the Code and supporting the New Order; though it may require more work to get them to part with the isk, they will correspondingly be far more loathe to do anything to invalidate their permit than they would be if the permit was *merely* about the value of their word and honorable behavior. We charge for a permit because that is the only way to get an unredeemed miner or other carebears to value it at all; before we have saved them, they would be incapable of appreciating an emergent social compact at all without a price tag attached.
The less canonical reason is a little more disheartening. This is my own conjecture, it is neither in the Code nor something James has explicitly said. It makes sense though.
We charge for permits because we have to. I'm sure you've seen it before, both in the comments here and elsewhere. Random anti-ganking carebear says "I support ganking when it's for profit, but what you guys do is just griefing (since it's not for profit)". The idea that player interactions can either be about profit, or they can be about griefing, and that's it. It's an antisocial, carebear-centric view of the world, but it is tragically quite common, even among CCP staff. When James first started selling mining permits, what finally got them to stop harassing him was that he was able to show a profit from selling mining permits: that he was able to defend the betterment of highsec not as a worthwhile goal or valuable player-created content, but in terms of a selfish isk-gaining business. *That* was the justification that the GM's cared about. And so, we continue to charge for mining permits because we must. When the dichotomy even the game creators recognize is "it's either about making money or about griefing", then to avoid being mistaken for griefers we must at least pay lip service to it being about the money. Which is really quite sad. But then, CCP never really understood the genius of what they created, or what it was that made it good. It should be unsurprising that they'd lose their way among the endless bouts of carebear whining eventually.
Yes we push to the far limits - Code compliance requires no less.
ReplyDeleteThen again, if they'd bought permits and adhered to its principles, their ships would still be safe.
Just so simple really. Only an idiot would believe otherwise.
Apparently James315 is on the front cover of every financial statement at ccp.
ReplyDeleteHalf of the sales team has been fired because James315 and code have sold more plexes for ccp than anyone that works there.
Bumping is bullying and GCC timer would be 6 months long.
ReplyDeleteseems legit
DeleteName one activity that you can do that doesn't involve competing against other players. Hint: ship spinning is PvP, too, if you're as competitive about it as I am.
ReplyDelete