The disrespectful miner's ego had been taken down a few notches since the convo. He wrote the single longest tearmail I have ever read.
And friend, I've read a few.
Like all angry miners, Krimletch claimed that he wasn't angry. If it weren't for killboards, the ganked miners would also claim that they had never been ganked. (See, for example, any message board or comment section where a miner can post anonymously. They hate the New Order and its gankers, but insist they've never been ganked.)
Uh oh. Krimletch's "appeal" went bad in a hurry. He admitted that he was rude to our Agents, but said he only did it to test them.
According to Krimletch, he was really a nice, polite miner who was only pretending to be a Goofus to see how people would react. Apparently everyone flunked his test, because instead of apologizing for his own behavior, he started complaining about everyone else's.
The miner, who was supposed to be giving me reasons why he should be excused from the Red Pen list, went into a lecture about how the Code should be changed.
Unfortunately for the miner, he is not the Saviour of Highsec. The Code was not his to write. Also unfortunate for Krimletch: I had the entire chatlog of his convo with our Agents. His allegations about their rudeness were unfounded.
Krimletch went on and on in this manner, blaming Agents for not treating him respectfully enough when he pretended to be rude.
As Krimletch's lecture continued, he even complained about the word "guilty" being used "so loosely" in the convo. Well, that's the risk you run when you're a guilty miner.
Yep, still going. At this point in the essay, you might be wondering how long it took Krimletch to write all of this stuff. The answer: Not as long as you'd think. Comparing the timestamps of the EVEmail and the convo, it actually took Krimletch less than an hour to put all this together.
In retrospect, that time wasn't very well spent. And no, it's still not over.
...Now it's over. In all, the essay was over 1,500 words. Remember, it took less than an hour for him to write it. As he reached the conclusion, he said he was hurrying because downtime was approaching. Considering all the effort he put into this, should Krimletch be let off the hook? I had a decision to make.
A few days later, while I was still considering the Krimletch matter, the miner returned to the asteroid belts. This was a bad idea, especially since he still owed 20 million more isk, pending the outcome of his appeal. He was ganked by Agent Guybertini. Of course, Krimletch played the victim.
On occasion, deciding the fate of the miners is easy. Despite the fact that I hadn't yet responded to Krimletch's titanic EVEmail, the miner told Agent Lord Mandelor that I "lifted" the penalty. His story was an unlikely one--who ever heard of a mining permit costing 15 million isk?
Krimletch was also asked about his bio, which made no mention of a mining permit. Then came another whopper: Krimletch said that I was no longer requiring miners to put permits in their bio. At Krimletch's suggestion.
Then the brash miner warned of dreadful consequences for the New Order, since miners can easily hire "protection agencies".
Still wondering about the outcome of the miner's appeal? Let's just say I have a feeling ol' Krimletch is going to remain on the Red Pen list for a long time.
The Code ALWAYS wins!!!! ALWAYS!!!!
ReplyDeleteand it appears Veers has left the game!!!
Delete"Ming TsoFebruary 25, 2015 at 6:52 PM"
DeleteThe master of repeat old sayings...
He can't come up with anything new to say at all...
Miners always lie
ReplyDeleteThat's the one thing they're good at
Well, that and tearmails
this is gonna be THE tearmail from now on
DeleteWhat I don't understand is how miners can be so stupid, simply orbiting the roid/ice at about 5-10 km makes ganking/bumping much much more difficult, sure it can still be done, but that's what skiffs are for. Also you can put a tractor beam on an orca or hulling ship so really orbiting should not be a problem at all.
ReplyDeleteGotta say that getting the alignment and timing right to land a cat at under 2k of a moving target gives you a much greater sense of accomplishment too.
DeleteTry it miners, you'll see that we with CODE enjoy a good challenge.
Or alternatively just buy a permit and act in a compliant manner and enjoy a chat with us now and then, we're a friendly bunch.
Fly safe o/
"He wrote the single longest tearmail I have ever read.
ReplyDeleteAnd friend, I've read a few."
LOL
Obviously you have not read the long long tearmails that james posts.
Delete1,500 words is nothing when you look at the rage and tear mails that james posts.
-=M=-
Lying about being fogiven. Hooo boy this guy.
ReplyDeletealso I noticed that in mandelor stories guybertini tends to show up and gank somebody often. Hmmmmmm
Incursion runners and miners are the lowliest scum in the galaxy. All they can think of is their next lie.
ReplyDeleteThey claim to be lawyers, but they aren't.
They claim to want a better NPE, but they do nothing to help.
They claim to win wardecs 3:1, but they have no KB to speak of.
I have found in my travels in eve online that ironicly code actully hates itself, let me explain.
ReplyDeleteCode says they hate/dislike those that either interact with just roids, or do nothing but going after npc's, yet they claim that those people are no better then the npc's.
So if code is going after those that behave like npc's, are not code members doing exacaly what their enemies do? If you hate those that fight npc's and then you go after them claiming they are npc's, your no better then those you hunt.
People can be changed NPC's can't (Unless you work for CCP of course). Your statement is flawed.
DeleteExcept no, Anon@10:15. You should probably reread the Code, as you seem to have misunderstood (or flat-out missed) large portions of it.
DeleteWe hate bot-aspirancy, not NPC's (who are after all mindless bits of code and cannot be meaningfully loved or hated) or even bot-aspirants (who are fallible human beings who have fallen into a self-destructive playstyle, and need our pity and correction far more than they need our hate). Players who run mining bots are doing harm, sure, but we don't hate the bots themselves. And what is wrong with missioning/ratting/incursioning carebears isn't that they shoot red crosses, it's that they're obsessed with the risk-free acquisition of wealth. It's really kind of astounding how much you've misunderstood.
So no, Agents of the Code don't "actully" hate themselves. I appreciate your concern for our emotional well-being, however. Now that I've helped clear up this misunderstanding for you, would you like to purchase a mining permit and get right with the Code? At only 10m/toon/year, it's a hell of a bargain!
Who in their right mind would write all that to someone they do not know, over several million isk that has been exploded? Its insane, if I were to get blapped by those CODE monkeys last thing I would do is acknowledge anything. I definitely would not reply or try to get a reimbursement. On another note if anyone wants to donate to the new order please do not contract it to James 315 please send it all to Loyalanon he's the Code Monkeys organ grinder not James.
ReplyDeletesomeone who really doesn't want to be parted with their isk?
DeleteThis is the kind of thing Veers would do, he's a lawyer so he used too writing long winded lies about himself. in fact i am beginning to think this is a Veers alt caught mining roids afk instead of afk incursions.
ReplyDeleteTwo things I like in freshly ganked miners' feedback:
ReplyDelete1. miner tells me that my behavior is bad for business, since if I asked nicely he would've paid, but not anymore (usually followed by him giggling about how I missed my 10mil payment for shooting first/asking questions later)
2. miner tells me I don't follow my own CODE because he should be able to get a one day reprieve by answering three questions
both points serve as excellent seeds for lively chats in local.
Wow, the longest tear mail ever sent, and over a covetor!
ReplyDeleteI think there is a missed opportunity here. Krimlech is sending memos on how the New Order operates? Perhaps they could be persuaded to assemble a schedule so that Ledrian Saisima can steal it.
ReplyDeleteThese tears are overflowing the Veers mug of shame
ReplyDeleteFlowing like Loyalon's kids tears over their exam results, F. Parenting at its best.
ReplyDeleteComments like the above are why nobody likes us, you know, and only serves to reinforce their beliefs that miners are despicable people who can't tell game life and real life apart.
ReplyDeleteBeing the kind of person that people might empathize with would be a sensible tactic that would help undermine (ooo, pun) CODE's position, but you're not willing to be that kind of person when you can just make up an insult that has nothing to do with anything and let that fly instead, are you?
The game is real life
DeleteAFK-play mixes them
To their detriment
To be honest, Anon@11:30, part of the reason it is so difficult for people to sympathize with or organize miners is because, in short, being terrible is actually built into what they do as to make being good impossible.
DeleteMiners produce nothing that can't be produced better by anyone else, they have no fascinating stories to tell, they aren't brave, their very nature says "I don't take risks," and they tend to complain a lot. Their think their way of life should exempt them from even the most basic requirements of EVE, like ship fitting. As such, gallant miners like yourself, who defend their fellow miners, will always find themselves fighting an endless uphill PR battle eventually.. because most carebears cannot be convinced by good PR. There are just too many of them who are thin-skinned and risk-averse- and who will play the rage card, making themselves, (and all miners, by proxy) look foolish.
The way to change carebear behaviour is through the sword. You must beat the indignant behaviour out of the carebear until it becomes compliant- and if you want to defend the carebear, maybe you should try shooting at it in order to help it. Sure, it'll get mad at you, it will call you names, it will call you a traitor.
But look at what they're calling you right now.
When you are ready to do something meaningful to help change carebear behaviour, The New Order stands ready.
"Ming TsoFebruary 26, 2015 at 5:38 PM"
DeleteWhoha! The Code nerds says miners can't spell and use proper grammar.
Are you a miner Ming or just plain stupid?
There's no need to be rude, Anon@6:41. And given that you are speaking to an Agent of the Code, there is every reason not to be. Though I suppose you do serve as a perfect example of the reprehensible behavior Ming was talking about.
Delete"Maria MalukkerFebruary 26, 2015 at 6:45 PM"
DeleteYou need to play EVE to be able to even think of the fake agents you are talking about.
Still Ming spells like a retard so start spelling better or go gank yourself....
@Anon7:07
DeleteMiner, calm down. You're out of line.
And by the way, I'm still looking forward to you backing up your claim about how anyone who challenged you at Chess wouldn't survive until the end of the match. (Because, presumably, you would kill them.)
My challenge stands. Which color do you prefer? Black or White?
Or do you not have the GUTS to face me?
"Ming TsoFebruary 26, 2015 at 7:26 PM"
DeleteMing one of the Code player that can't read or understand that every company are forced by law to produce economic reports and that they are not secret at all.
Read again and see if I'm a miner.
I don't play chess so you need to find another player if you have to play chess.
It's so hard to keep all the cowardly anonymous miners straight. Aren't you the guy who was saying that nobody would survive until the end of a chess match with them?
Delete"Maria MalukkerFebruary 26, 2015 at 7:45 PM"
DeleteNope, I'm not.
If you don't like people confusing you for one of the other 15 cowardly Anons, why not start using a name, Anon@8:36? It doesn't have to be your in-game name (or perhaps you're one of the Anons who swears up and down that he "doesn't play EvE and it's a dumb game" yet spends 4 hours a day on a blog relevant only to EvE-players), but using a consistent handle we can know you by would enable better communication.
DeleteYeah right, like this isn't you:
Delete[i]"Maria MalukkerFebruary 25, 2015 at 7:37 PM"
No one dare to challenge me at chess since they won't survive to the end.
Read a few studies about games and rage and you will quickly see why Code is the wrong way of doing stuff in EVE. [/i]
Like I said: You don't have the guts. Typical for a carebear though.
I will count your refusal as a loss. Not like you could have beaten an Agent of the New Order even if you had the stones to try.
ANOTHER VICTORY FOR THE NEW ORDER!!!!
"Ming TsoFebruary 26, 2015 at 8:47 PM"
DeleteI have proof that I could not post anything at that time so come on and grow some balls.
"Maria MalukkerFebruary 26, 2015 at 8:46 PM"
DeleteHave no in game name except for H1Z1, called Floke there.
I love how the more ming gets upset the more he mispells and does double words. We should make a ming bingo card, thou honestly everyone would fill it out in no time at all.
Delete*tosses ming a copy of "hooked-on-phonics"* Please do try to use it from time to time m'kay?
-=M=-
I'm trying to figure out what your goal is here, M. I mean, I doubt you're actually hallucinating, so you must be aware that Ming's comment has no spelling errors, no double words, nothing wrong with it grammatically. Yet you're acting as if it does. Why? Are you really hoping to anger someone by pretending they've made mistakes when they haven't?
Delete@Anon9:21
DeleteHmmm, proof? Will this be the same kind of proof that you provided for the existence of your so-called "economy reports?" Or will it be the kind of proof I provided when I told you you didn't have the stones to play me in Chess?
"Ming TsoFebruary 27, 2015 at 3:00 AM"
DeleteYou are so full of shit that half would be enough!
I did two things around that time.
I had to put my beloved cat to sleep, some coward took out their rage on him and broke his spine.
The second thing were I had to visit my daughters kindergarten.
I can send you the certificate of my cat put to sleep, just give me your real address. No real verifiable address = no certificate, it's up to you now.
You must be a child or a very very bad person.
I'm 39 years old and I still don't play chess, teach me and we can play. As you fired the question you must come to my place or consider yourself beaten.
What's your next accusation?
For the sake of facilitating communication, I am the one who posted the root comment that this is in reply to, and I've made a number of polite posts on other recent blog entries on minerbumping. Perhaps all of them that you can attribute to a rebel that isn't rabid, much to my dismay. Uphill PR battle indeed.
DeleteNice to make your acquaintance, commenter-formerly-known-as-PoliteAnon!
DeleteIf you don't mind my asking, just why do you feel compelled to defend people who not even their allies can avoid finding repellent?
@Anon4:07
DeleteNow it sounds like you want me to give you my real address so that you can get in your car, drive here, and come into my house. Which to me, sounds like a bad idea that you haven't really thought through. At all.
So let me propose an alternate (better) idea, one that accomplishes your goals without you potentially having to leave your child without a parent. You take a picture of your "cat's death certificate," put it up on imgur, and post a link. And, while you are at it, you could just pop over to the website where your "economy reports" are located, and then put that link right below the first one. This solution would back up both of your claims, would establish your credibility, and most importantly, it would prove me wrong.
But I don't think you're going to prove me wrong. Because, frankly, I think you're lying to get sympathy. I don't believe the story about your cat. In particular, not because it's hard as hell for children to get ahold of cats, (albeit possible,) but because I tragically know that veterinarians don't issue death certificates for animals they put to sleep. The only death certificates you can get for pets are custom ones online as mementos.
But please, if you're not lying, post the links and make me eat crow.
It's been a long time since I've had to eat crow. Please. Make me eat crow.
It wasn't so he could come fight you, Ming. You ought to know better, miners are far too cowardly for that. But ordering pizzas to your house (to be paid with cash on delivery of course), using your address to learn your irl name and from that phone number or email and harass you, that kind of thing...that's within the scope of a miner's spiteful, cowardly grasp. It's pretty pathetic that Anon@4:07 was stupid enough to think that lies about a dead kitty would be enough to get him that information about you. But then, he hasn't exactly made himself out to be an intelligent or valuable person so far.
DeleteI don't think I can answer your question, Maria. I'll assume you're looking for some kind of logical rationale, but my motivations are purely naive idealism. It's built into my programming to be unhappy with others' unhappiness and seeing people bent out of shape makes me want to do something to fix it.
DeleteI haven't played EvE for very long. At the risk of spinning you a tired old tale, I have a 9 year old character who's essentially a newb with only a couple months of training time. We didn't have incursions or ventures then, and going into losec WAS appealing because mining the ores there was profitable. I found out about CODE somehow, read one of James 315's articles on why a risk free hisec was bad for EvE, and seeing my reasons to want to leave hisec essentially erased, I agreed with that.
On the blog, I find CODE to be polite, and I don't feel too bad about posting because I don't think anyone is going to respond to me with hate even if they disagree with me. In game, though, my experience with CODE has ranged from being ignored, to kicked from the minerbumping channel, to 'marked red and being actively hunted' for the crime of trying to learn about you. You say, though, that agents are primed to expect nothing but filth, lies, and rage from miners and I'm inclined to think that's probably true. I try to set aside that negative experience and focus on the much better one I'm getting here, but I still have doubts about to what extent your average CODE agent is ganking for ideals vs. tears.
I have my doubts that there's a place for me in CODE at all. I would have atrocious combat performance and it's not something I even like to do, regardless of whether I win or lose, and I feel that any function for which I would have talent is not valuable enough to be desirable. My defense against CODE is purely passive, and mostly involves following the code and being chatty and curious enough that checking bios and watching local are second nature. I'm not leading some kind of valiant war effort or anything. If someone came along and offered me a place in an anti-CODE fleet where I could help with their non-combat duties, AND they weren't asses to CODE agents, I'd join because it'd be interesting, and I have greater confidence that you guys could handle the virtual conflict with maturity. If I have to choose a virtual foe, I guess I prefer one that's not going to give me grief. I don't know if that was one of the ways you intended to improve the EvE experience, but it's to your credit that you do.
Sorry I couldn't be more succinct. I never did really understand myself well enough to know why I do things the way I do, so I am not very good at trying to explain it. ^^;
No worries, Commenter-Formerly-Known-As-Polite-Anon (not trying to be a smartass with the name thing, I just don't know how to type the symbols which constitute the name you've chosen for yourself). I'm probably at least as verbose as you, so you're not going to bother me by not being succinct.
DeleteThe thing one has to remember about Code Agents (apart from the fact that we're constantly abused and harassed by carebears, and that that tends to make people touchy and suspicious) is that we're a very decentralized, grass-roots kind of group. Kind of like Al Qaeda, James 315 has made public documents detailing our goals, ideals, and preferred methodology, and anyone who agrees with these values can train up a ganking toon, buy a handful of catalysts, and start helping to enforce the Code. It's recommended that people spend time in the minerbumping channel and interact with the ganking community (both through the comments and the forum here on minerbumping, and through teamspeak chats arranged in-game), but none of that is required, or enforceable. Another analogy might be a franchise, except without needing permission from the parent company. Anyone can start bumping miners, ganking them, and selling permits in their area. As long as they themselves aren't also violating the Code, they'll be acknowledged as fellow Agents by any other Agents they may come across.
What all this means in practice is that there is enormous variety in the folks you'll meet who will self-identify as Code Agents. Not everyone ganks or bumps, either. I myself have only participated in a couple of ganks, and although I did help scout for loyalanon's freighter ganking fleets once or twice, I could never claim that my main contributions to the Code have been in the form of in-game PvP. Like you, I'm actually pretty damn bad at PvP, and wouldn't feel like I was making a valuable contribution that way. Instead, I've decided to try to help spread the ideals of the Code through culture, by writing haiku and talking with people. As James 315 says in the "Become an Agent" tab, at the top of the page, there are ways to support the New Order other than ganking or bumping ships. Sasha helps support the New Order by lending his amazing voice the cause. Loyalanon helped through his organizational skills, etc. Not everyone you meet will be kind, or well-spoken, or (unfortunately) necessarily polite. Some agents will take all the time you need to explain everything, debate the fine points of the Code, and welcome you into the family. Others will just shoot you in the face and be on their way. No one Agent or set of Agents is truly representative of the whole, and there is little that every single Agent has in common, beyond agreement that the Code represents the best way forward for Highsec.
It sounds to me like you agree with the values and content of the Code, Commenter-Formerly-Known-As-PoliteAnon. Highsec *is* too safe these days, and the incentives which formerly existed to leave highsec and join the real game in lowsec and null have been slowly chipped away, until people exist who have spent their entire long EvE careers in highsec and see no reason to ever leave. And habitual carebearism *is* bad for people, it does make them unhappy, and it is perfectly natural to want to do something to help carebears stop being so unhappy all the time. The solutions to all these problems lie in the Code. More risk in highsec, so that people will graduate out of it and go forth to enjoy the real rewards in EvE. Less antisocial PvE, more social PvP. Less filth and hatred in local, more respectful and cordial discussion.
I don't think you'll remain a rebel for long, tbh. You're already 90% of the way to accepting the Code. I look forward to calling you a fellow Agent of the Code.
The symbols are supposed to be like a shooting star. I have a thing for stars. I considered 'PoliteAnon' and 'Gallant Miner' and some other things I've been called by yourself or Ming, but any anon title might be confusing if another anon comes along, and I can think of a number of problems with calling myself gallant. My character name would cause me grief, so I didn't use that.
DeleteI suggest just calling me 'Star', if that floats your boat. It's short, and I already have a number of nicknames like that. As long as you're not trying to be mean about it, though, you can call me whatever you feel like.
"Ming TsoFebruary 27, 2015 at 3:58 PM"
DeleteNo, no address no certificate, told you that allready.
If you think I'm that bad so I would pick a fight for this you are lower than I thought.
Drive to you?
You have to live in Sweden for that to be possible.
If you are afraid that I would carry a gun I can say that carry guns is not legal here.
I do have guns but for hunting and target shooting, wouldn't risk my licenses for a video game unless you try to hurt me or my family.
You can give me your nearest vet so I can send it to them.
This is the last chance if you want proof, I don't really care if you believe me or not.
You seems to be the one that have a lot to hide, not me.
There are many colorful Anons in the comments section that we've grown to know and love. There's BuffoonAnon, who loves using the word 'buffoon'. There's VeersAnon (well... there's quite a few of those). There's TuffAnon, who is willing to accept any RL duel to the death.
ReplyDeleteTisk tisk tisk.....new order is down to under 50% of what it had just 2 months ago....my how the isk flies when they conduct their criminal enterprises.
ReplyDeleteIt's a bit disheartening seeing over and over again this carebear obsession with money. No thought of all the good we do or the joy we spread throughout highsec, just money money money. I don't even know what you lot want with all that money, it's not like having it brings you any joy.
Delete