The bot-aspirant carebears are relics of the past. If they could, they would make highsec go back to the way it used to be.
Standing in their way: The Agents of the New Order of Highsec. Among this elite group of PvP'ers is Mildron Klinker, "Very Special Agent" of the New Order.
CCP may sell monocles, but they don't sell Agent badges. It would be cool, yet unnecessary, since anyone can recognize an Agent: They're the ones who don't spend their time shouting about penises and such. They're too busy winning.
Agents stand in sharp contrast to the lesser players of EVE--if they can be called "players" at all.
Despite the incoherent ramblings of the carebears, we know they're paying attention. For instance, some will reference things in the Code, or in an Agent's bio.
They look at Mildron Klinker's bio and immediately feel guilty in the presence of an Agent of the New Order. They know they have been judged under the Code.
Most carebears don't immediately respond with an acknowledgement of their guilt or a payment of 10 million isk. They want to see if calling an Agent "horse foot" will suffice. It won't.
Bitterly clinging to their isk, the carebear claims total freedom to mine in highsec. The destruction of their mining barges and exhumers suggests otherwise.
The Code is clarity; the words of the carebear offer only confusion.
Finding themselves powerless in-game, the most hardened bot-aspirant wishes real-life death on the Agents. Failing that, they beg CCP to deploy permabans. A man may die, and a hero may be permabanned. But you can't kill an idea.
Despite their trickery, our enemies failed to slow the rising tide of Code-compliance. The most candid of them admit that there's only one way this story can end.
...Total victory for the New Order. Even those who will "never" pay, do pay.
The bot-aspirant's habitat is being transformed. They call it the death of EVE. They accuse us of driving away the game's subscribers.
The numbers don't lie. The New Order is a cleansing fire in highsec. We improve retention rates among the majority--those who are interested in playing the game. We clear their path by removing those who would only bot or aspire to bot.
The carebears are a curious people. They have even more difficulty understanding us. In time, however, when they see highsec turn into its final form, they will learn to appreciate the Code's beauty.
The CODE lighs the way, with the burning wrecks of illegal mining barges and their bot pilots!
ReplyDeleteThe CODE always wins! Always
Can I have some of what you are smoking? It must be some really good shit!
Delete-=M=-
I love smoking after touching children
Delete-=M=-
@ -=M=- Thanks for proving my point... idiot.
Delete~ Asia Leigh
Horseshit
ReplyDeleteNo, it's horse foot.
DeleteThat's a constellation of miner tears right there.
ReplyDeleteEveryone notice the common trend running through these responses to Agent Mildron Klinker? Empirical proof Carebears have no class or self respect.
The Code proving as always that it is winning!!! \o/.
Nope that ain't it. People just don't like space nazis.
DeleteMy thoughts exactly. Whenever I found illegal activity, I made sure to follow up with a mail detailing exactly what they lost: ship, pod, dignity, self-respect, or all of the above. It turns out there's a good strong correlation to ticking "all of the above" and receiving a tsunami of tears. Who'd have thought ticking a single small box would cause these poor souls to lose not only their self-control but control of their bowels? Carebears are strange.
Delete- Dr Tyler
@ Aldo Raine
DeleteBINGO
~ Asia Leigh
Now are you a space doctor? Like a Dr. Mengele of HighSec? Did you get your degree at Eve U?
DeleteAsia- I've found that if hundreds of mostly unrelated people tell you something, the same thing, about you, over a period of years, it might be true.
Deletei.e. you guys are a bunch of space nazis.
DeleteNo Aldo, that's just you being gullible.
DeleteYou're getting close with the Mengele meme: the carebear population make an excellent source of test subjects. You're a prime case: I find many people with a nazi infatuation absolutely love those boys in uniform.
- Dr T
The quality of the fecal mater posted by you monkeys is going down the sewer...oh, and remember, ming, man up....
ReplyDelete"Fecal mater"? Proof positive that not only do carebears hate Eve and other players, they also hate their mothers.
DeleteAlso pretty obvious they really hated English class as well.
DeleteThey basically show hate for everything they discuss. Talking, writing, pvp, mining, eve generally....it's all hate. You have to wonder how any one person could learn to be so hateful. Does mining do this to people?
DeleteOh? I suggest you take a read on the comments in this and other blogs. Now who are the assholes? So I'm an asshole because I blew up your spaceship in a game about blowing up spaceships...but it's okay to insult, make rl death and rape threats, and threaten to "hack" my computer? I think your definition of an asshole is skewed. The issue is the anger...which is anger at themselves for being so stupid and complacent as to think they are safe. They just need to direct it at someone else..after all, it's easier to pass the blame than to accept that it's your own fault. As long a people continue to not take responsibility for themselves, protect their interests, remain at the keyboard while in space, and respond in a manner that isn't vile...Code is necessary. You see...you think you are fighting Code with all this hatred, when in reality you just solidify it with every afk miner, every rl insult, and every vile remark. YOU are the reason Code is here. Stop and think about it...
DeleteThe threats carebears send you are just that; threats. They're your average internet tough guys. If you even consider taking them seriously I can't imagine how you survived in EVE this long.
DeleteAlso your pseudo-psychology is so bad even junior psychology students would start banging their head on the wall if they saw it. Their anger stems from losing something, you made them lose something, you're the cause of the anger. Have you ever seen someone that hasn't lost a ship be that angry at random? You cause that anger, you damage a person's psychological condition and then try to act like they're all the better for it. And people attempt to protect their interests by being in hi-sec. That's the whole reason CCP created the security system in the first place: protection. But you repeatedly organise efforts to exploit game mechanics in order to bypass that protection.
I'm not against weeding out bot and afk miners, but minerbumping has changed from doing that to outright bullying people into paying for something that should be free. You're lucky most of these miners don't boycott CCP for allowing you to continue, otherwise you'd be in deep shit.
@Anon 9:24. I actually do hold a psychology degree. Though it's only an AS. (It was my first major). Using words like pseudo-psychology do not make you sound like you know what you're talking about. To take it more in depth, it is not the agent or player that causes the anger issues or outbursts of a particular player. Those are underlying issues of a deeper problem of being unable to separate what is real and what is not. The agent or player is what would be considered a trigger. It is well know that a trigger can be anything..but it's easier to blame someone else rather than accept ones own lack of self control. If playing a game "damages" ones psychological condition, they are setting themselves up. One with enough self control should know better than to put themselves in a situation where they are easily agitated..especially when it's 100% avoidable...and that's not even bringing the aspect of the gameplay into the equation.
DeleteCCP created security to offer something other than low and null...to to guarantee "total safety". Again it goes back to personal responsibility and the tools provided to you to take such measures. If you chose not to use the tools given to you, or chose to be complacent under the false assumption of security, you are not only foolish, but deserve what comes to you.
Good luck. The miners do not have the organization or capacity to cause any real effect to CCP. This is another pipe dream to think somehow you have control over something you have no control over. There is no bullying...there is no rl correlation to cyber bullying. No one is actually hurt, no one is engaged in any rl aspect, real names and identities are not used, no forum other than a fictitious game char is involved. Your concept of bullying is skewed and does not fit any legal or moral criteria as legitimate bullying. It's a s simple as signing off..where such actions that occur in the game DO NOT follow you into your rl. If you do indeed feel emotional distress over what is a fantasy reality, that is you problem and should seek help. :)
WTS the reason why Mildron is a "very special" Agent, 10 mil for a simple answer, 100 mil for a complete answer with MS Paint drawings.
ReplyDeleteHow much for a puppet show?
DeleteHow about a video with Sasha as narrator?
DeleteBoth of those are really good suggestions! I'll break out the abacus and work out pricing for the puppets and try to figure out a way to broach the subject with Sasha...
DeleteOoooo... We haven't had any good Sasha content in a while. Here's hoping he's still around, waiting for a good piece to narrate.
Delete290, look at yesterdays post...new vid from Sasha and his exquisite voice. :)
DeleteI think the comments section needs moderation.
ReplyDeleteI think you need to get on your knees and eat my pussy, or am I going to have to pry your mouth open again while raping you with my shotgun?
Deleteyikes!
DeleteAgents get their laughs from in-game tears and make jokes about in-game material.. Carebears make "jokes" about rape. :( It's not even a very good troll. It's just pathetic.
DeleteI actually think that is a good idea, while I like tears as much as the next person, this last week we have entered a new level of carebear douche-baginess that really doesn't belong on this website (or any website for that matter)...
DeleteOnly problem being who is going to volunteer to keep it clean, if moderation is even possible here?
~ Asia Leigh
My Moomy and Daddy raped me with a knife, and I liked it :)
Delete~ Asia Leigh
Okay... Enough is Enough... All in favor of moderators sign here. Now this is really begining to piss me off -.- Thats like 4 or 5 sick rape bullshit in 2 days now? You really don't want me on your bad side... You really don't... You have been warned!
Delete~ Asia Leigh
I would be willing to don the mantle of Supreme Forum Moderator.
DeleteAgents are so easily upset and baited :)
Delete-=M=-
Im going to have to ask you to calm down Asia Leigh!
DeleteBesides, most of the ones doing the sick posts are code members anyway.
Your sick, you know that? You are sick in the mind and need to seek immediate medical attention....
DeleteUnfortunately that's what the grossest carebears (who more and more I suspect are just M, since all this started about when M stopped commenting under his own name) what: for it to be someone's job to deal with their bullshit 24/7. I say, let them be disgusting. Ignore them. And let the world see the difference in quality between Agents of the New Order, and the scum who would ruin eve to enhance their isk-grinding efficiency.
DeleteTrue, however I think that John or someone should purge the comments about Gas chambers and child rape. I mean in the last thread someone using the names of 2 different agents were trolling about raping a boy. Which is what set me off when I read it. I would like to think that this website is above that and at least comments pertaining to that be purged.
Delete~ Asia Leigh
This is, unfortunately, the way Carebears hang themselves, and probably why they will be continue to be allowed to say whatever they wish.
DeleteIt's a powerful point to say that Carebears are free to engage in intelligent dialogue, say whatever they want to try to prove CODE is wrong, but spend the bulk of their time trying to one up each other in a race to find the most offensively vulgar thing they can possibly think of.
It's very similar to posting something along the lines of "Hi, agents. I am a terrible irrational person completely undeserving of your respect or sympathy, but I wanted to make sure you didn't forget how vile I am."
Could not agree more. I'd be really happy if the Savior would empower a few choice agents to moderate comments here. The occasional ranting and raging carebear can be funny, but some of these third rate trolls lately are just taking it a bit too far.
DeleteCould not agree more. I'd be really happy if the Savior would empower a few choice agents to moderate comments here. The occasional ranting and raging carebear can be funny, but some of these third rate trolls lately are just taking it a bit too far.
DeleteI strongly disagree with any call for moderation. Only DOS attacks like spamming hundreds of comments and doxxing should be dealt with through moderation, as has been the case up until now. Minerbumping opened its very first post with a promise to maintain an open and anonymous comment section. It should stand by that promise.
DeleteThese comment sections should remain an open forum in which the carebears can hang themselves for all to see.
Additionally, the New Order should *never* be reactive. We define the way we play for our own reasons and are never dictated to by the carebears. No New Order policy should ever be reactionary to the carebears, lest we give them even a fleeting taste of legitimacy.
Well said, however the sperg is getting a little strong, and I personally think that a limit should be placed. The comments section, thanks to a couple anonymous idiots, is quickly becoming something beyond NSFW and a bit of a eyesore. I'd hate to see us lose dozens and dozens of readers simply due to tolerating this type of abuse.
DeleteYes, it's awesome to allow the carebears to rant and rave and make complete fools out of themselves, I agree. However, it would be nice to see the truly vile comments that add nothing to any discussion be moderated, and the IP addresses behind those comments blocked from making future comments.
When it comes to code. sometimes I like them sometimes I don't but I do kind of agree with 290xanaots give the carebears enough rope and watch them hang themselves. And apart of me really believes some of the trolls are trying to push things to the point where the comments get moderation so they can then start crying that they are being censored.
Delete@ 290xanaots
DeleteI agree with you, I really do. However in this case all I'm seeing is a 1 upping of who can post the most disgusting thing. In the past few months I have been posting here I have yet to see a troll reference child rape.
You may disagree, but in my honest opinion something that over the top and that vile has no right to be posted here (Or anywhere for that matter). All not removing it is going to do is give the opinion to someone visiting the site for the first time that we allow such outrageous behavior by keeping it up.
Also what if it gets worse. What happens if some troll's post cross the line of legality? What happens if it makes the news and CCP does a massive ban sweep of anyone even remotely connected to this website like they did with the bonus room Version 2.0? Then what?
I don't think we need an "ISD" team, but I do believe that John should consider nuking the more vile and disgusting comments before this gets completely out of hand and ends up in a place none of us want it to go.
~ Asia Leigh
Yeah I kind of agree that the comments section could do with a little spring cleaning. Perhaps only remove comments that stray into a particular area like some of the ones mentioned above. If you remove the carebear tears you remove the heart of the comments section but ultimately it's up to James and James has never been one to quash free speech.
DeleteI'm going to weigh in here and basically say that no Agent should wish for the forbidden ability to moderate the Minerbumping.com comments section.
DeleteModeration, while it may be effective, is the choice weapon of carebears, cowards, miners, pacifists, mission runners, devs, and other degenerates who are incapable of defeating an opponent in honourable battle, or free debate.
Allowing Agents to use the powers of carebears to suppress carebear thought, while a tempting proposition, is unnecessary, as Agents routinely dominate the carebear, and have never once been pushed back on their heels insofar as to reqiure assistance, let alone such a "trump card."
Even the most qualified Noble Agent of the New Order to wield this power, (me,) would be tempted to correctly ban those who incorrectly disagreed with the New Order, which would run counter with Supreme Protector's Order of Mercy when it comes to dealing with the carebear scourge. Every carebear must and will be saved, and while it is our goal to make the worst of the carebears quit, they must quit because the Light of the New Order was too bright for them to stand in, and not because their words were silenced.
Because New Order Agents are simply better people, in all respects, compared to the lowly Carebear.
Though I do agree with you 100% 290...The vile sexual comments are a bit much. Some have even begun to post about pedophilia and rape. This can't be tolerated in any forum imo. If you have in game issues, or grievances with someone..that's one thing...but taking it to a lever where one has to stoop as low as rape or vile sexual insults is a bit much. Freedom to express opinions is good..but where is the line drawn between free expression and vile rhetoric. :/
DeleteWe all post with our in-game names (not even real-life names).. but the carebears who consider rape to be some kind of troll or joke are too afraid to even post that.
ReplyDeletenope they just post using agent names in some fail attempt to make us look bad...
Delete~ Asia Leigh
No need to use agent names to make them look bad, they do that all on their own.
DeleteMost of us post with a legit account..which is accountability...something the carebears are too afraid to take...
DeleteOf course they wouldn't. Then there may be in game consequences for their behavior here.
DeleteThese carebears seem somewhat subhuman.
ReplyDeleteMakes the whine even better.
CODE will always win! Always!
Fail fake agent is fail.
Delete1: Posted without any name or reference
2: It's "The Code always wins!", not "will always win". We're already winning. It's present tense.
3: Is that an attempt at a haiku? If so.. please do a quick google search of how to haiku.
Also used the word 'subhuman' in an attempt to be inflammatory.
DeleteA while back i suggested Concord should nail bumpers the moment they bump and give freighters a free warp off after being bumped. It's such a good idea i'd like to extend the concept to miners and new players as well. All CCP needs to do too make HS safe is have any offending ganker permabanned with his assest siezed by Concord and redistributed to incursion runners.
ReplyDeleteThis post has been rated 8.5/10
Why stop at 8.5? 10/10 Veers knows what he's talking about when it comes to HS
Delete~ Asia Leigh
Veers you talk the biggest load of verbal diarrhoea in the history of eve.
DeleteAs a bit of a carebear myself (being mostly involved in the business of ratting wherever I deem fit for the activity), I respectfully disagree with BOTH sides of this whole "ganker vs. carebear" thing.
ReplyDeleteFirst off, I personally disagree with the notion that a player has to pay to play their game... when they already pay to play their game, if you catch my drift. Constantly ganking those who elect not to pay is counterproductive to the notion of giving them freedom at the same token.
However, everyone including the "carebears" need to take steps to protect themselves from hostile forces when they're plying their trade. They can say "fuck the permits" all they want (please pardon the French), but they can't do jack about it when they're busy getting their asses handed to them by people they've obviously NOT prepared themselves for.
New Eden is a hostile place, and the New Order of Highsec is quite obviously bent on educating new players, ratters, and miners alike on that concept... and I do say, they teach a most eloquent lesson with their guns. They do it in every which way possible, to every person possible... and the only things that make them different than normal gankers are both a fair bit of infrastructure and a well-written "pretext" to gank and bump to their heart's content.
So, I urge all of the miners out there to, for once in your miserable lives... to adapt to your situation, instead of sitting on your hands doing nothing but complaining about your situation. You hate getting podded while waiting for CONCORD? Make your ship last longer by tanking that thing out! You hate being defenseless while you're mining ore? You have a drone bay. Use it! Any intelligent miner out there knows perfectly well that they're at risk every time they undock and take their ships out to gather the things that fuel New Eden's industry.
To the New Order guys: Thank you, for forcing people like myself to adapt. Next time I'm in highsec, mining or ratting away, I'm going to be doing it in a good, beefy ship with lots of guns/drones/whatever. You want a fight, you can have one. At least we'll respect each other for it at the end of the day -- or at least, I hope we will. I've been ganked by your sort before, and odds are it's gonna happen again if I ever make a move back to high security space.
Next time you come, I'll be ready with 10mil ISK -- I just hope you accept ammo in lieu of hard cash as payment for a permit. :)
HELLO? Thank you for posting this as you are pretty much spot on with this post. -=M=-, and the rest of the carebears that shitpost here should really read and actually comprehend what this post is saying.
DeleteCouldn't have said it better myself! 10/10
~ Asia Leigh
You are already on your way to becoming more than a care bear.
DeleteBy recognizing and taking action to protect your way of gaming, is taking an active part in Eve, which is all the Code actually wants for high sec in the first place.
As you progress down this road and communicate with both miners (When they're not AFK) and Agents (Who are more polite than most miners); you'll discover what others have pointed out in this thread - spending time with agents is more harmonious and relaxed, than trying to have a fruitful conversation with an entrenched miner who can only blame CCP for not protecting them from ultimately themselves.
Alexander - I salute you for your words, turn it into actions that make minerbumping.com and you'll understand the true nature of the bot aspirant miners and how they want to turn Eve in to a carebear land that could be better played off line.
I would like to expand upon your first statement. First off, it's only natural to have meaningful interaction between players, and this is something that CCP has intended for us in the first place. It's only natural that good players would strive to help others get some actual, meaningful content into their game, rather than just a bunch of rocks in their faces. If you're really set on the aforementioned goal, then I salute you for your commitment.
DeleteAs for the second point, I find interaction with anybody at all to be quite relaxing in general. So long as there is no hate, and there are no grudges to be had from an unsportsmanlike opponent (carebear, ganker, or otherwise), then all is well. However, this is where our opinions begin to diverge. I believe that you can find meaningful interaction on both sides of the fence, and one has but to look and see to find that any endless void -- however large it may be -- can be filled with stars. Such is the nature of any crowd.
However, I do agree with the New Order 150% on at least one point: the botters must go. I could care less about permits, and the BS that comes along with them, because I quite honestly don't care. I've got guns and those are MY permits (and probably yours as well).
As long as both sides are actively mining, then all is well... All it really boils down to is what exactly it is we're mining, be it players, rocks, or NPC's. Or, in our particular case, the botters. Those I will gladly gank any day of the week in any security space, because that's are where the juicy kills are. :)
but here is little prblem you said you dont care about permit you care about BOTs, but i only see how you kill ppl what respond you immediately. i never see here you kill whole fleet with ORCA and 4ppl.... why?
DeleteWe care about bots, and about behavior which seeks to mimic bots. Ultimately, bots are less harmful to the game than bot-aspirants, since bots don't lobby ccp to make the game safer. I report the bots I find during enforcement to ccp. I shoot the miners whose behavior mimics that of bots. Both are problems, and both call for their own appropriate approach.
DeleteBehavior which seeks to mimic bots? You mean like, mining out asteroid fields with your friends and a hauler? Like, literally the best way to actually mine? You care about people using legitimate game mechanics to legitimately play a legitimate part of the game? Yeah, you're not trying to enforce the disuse of bots, you're trying to enforce the effective removal of mining from the game. But since CCP won't do that no matter how much you whine at them, you just bully people until they give up mining or pay you so they can do something that, as per CCP's game mechanics, they should be able to do for free.
Delete@ anom 8:50
DeleteOkay, so you don't like our methods and policies? Then how about doing something to either stop us or protect yourself so you don't have to worry about us? I mean it really isn't that hard and just takes a little bit of effort.
There is that word again... Effort. Something that the vast majority of carebears are lacking. You would rather see a viable game play mechanic (Suicide ganking) removed then taking the necessary steps needed to protect yourself.
Remember you have the same tools at your disposal to protect yourself or stop us that we do to hunt you.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteThe New Order.
ReplyDeleteA system of morality which is based on relative emotional values is a mere illusion, a thoroughly vulgar conception which has nothing sound in it and nothing true.
Wrong but at least this was well written and thought out as opposed to the likes of -=M=- and poop anon
DeleteAttempting to equate morality and a fantasy game is a fail endeavor at best. It's a game. There is no morality..just pixels. Do you apply morality when you shop online? When you watch internet porn (don't lie)? When you play a game of chess? You shop to receive, you watch your porn to..well...ewwww, you play a game to win. Morality has no basis in it.
DeleteHakeri and the surrounding area of Panorad seem to be going strong, the last griefer we saw in system kept on donating his/her ship contents to the surrounding players in system. It's awesome we get to mine and afk to our hearts content, while taking generous donations from new order affiliates. Long may this continue.
ReplyDeleteObvious miner attempt at influencing the location of enforcement is obvious.
DeleteLOL, no honer between carebears huh? This carebear would throw his fellow miner under the bus just to be able to chew on rock uninterrupted. Rest assure that we will deal with your rebel miner friends soon enough!
DeleteI cant believe im going to say the same and agree with ming, but ill weigh in also.
ReplyDeleteI personaly have not been posting on here in the past week or so due mostly to the large number of fakes who have been posting as ming, alana, asia leigh, james 315 and of course as myself -=M=-. I personaly dont see the need for moderation of the forums, if and only if all these fakes would stop. However with as childish as they seem (another reason i havent been posting), i doubt they will stop any time soon. Best of luck with dealing with them Code., and i mean that in a good way. For myself i plan on not posting much untill this issue is dealt with one way or another. I of course will continue to read the posts done, as they are usualy entertaining, even if the forums part is not. I also want to mention that some of the comments are horrible, yes even the ones done about agents. Seriously? Child rape, calling someone a whore? I thought it was adults playing eve not children. SMH
-=M=-
@Anon3:12
DeleteOne way to stop clones is to use a Google Account. Rare is the case where a butthurt Anon, due to its typically lazy and indolent demeanor, will take the steps to create a Google Account, using the same identity as another, to bolster its stolen credibility.
Because, in the end, the best way to defeat clones is distinctive posting. You don't have to look at the blue behind my tag to know who the real Ming Tso is. You can tell it by looking at my zealotry, pizazz, spelling, pride, and devotion to the New Order, which are things that the Clone, with its laughable need for attention and single-minded focus on revenge and venality, is incapable of duplicating, as are the Code-inspired gifts of pedigree and proselytism.
These are so many aspects of true New Order Agents that no common Anon can even hope to imitate, which is why their angry attempts at cloning simply end up and are treated as more tears for us all to enjoy.
I would, however, call upon all Agents of the New Order to refrain from posting under different names- as we are all unique and stalwart pillars of support for the Code- each with our own enforcement techniques and behavior. There is no need for us to strike at carebears using any identity but our own.
Well said -=M=-.
DeleteI have always thought that this site should not let people post anonymously. It enables cowardice and vulgarity.
The ones who have been the worst posters of late do so because there are no consequences. That's what CODE is not about. CODE is about consequences for your actions... we preach and inforce it in New EVE, why not here? Why the free pass?
You want to be an idiotic vulgar troll, fine, but then you should do so in the light. I bet you would see a lot less of the crap as the cockroaches scurry for the shadows of anonymity some place else.
Just a thought.
It did get Veers to wander off to greener pastures where the mean Agents wouldn't make fun of him. And it's easy enough to prevent mockery posts, all it takes is the 30 seconds it'd take to make a google account.
DeleteI understand what you mean, and such posts certainly aren't necessary to defeat the carebear in debate. But they help discourage those trolls who take themselves too seriously, and they discourage the worst of deliberate baiting. If you'll notice, M has stopped his cute *throws a dictionary at Ming* emotes. That only happened after I started showing him how creepy they were. If it weren't for the mirror I held up for him, he'd still be *patting Maria on the head* after each comment.
I think that an approach which has been proven to improve carebear behavior or encourage the worst carebears to leave (which is the effect we wish to have upon the Eve community as a whole) should not be so easily discarded.
Our regular representatives in the comment section do a fantastic job at challenging and rebuking the worst of the anons. A casual or first time reader of the blog will be able to tell right away the differences between the New Order and those who oppose us. Agents like Ming, Maria, and Alana are intelligent, creative, or just entertaining. Our detractors are just offensive.
ReplyDeleteModeration would turn this place into an echo chamber which would be bad for us in the long run. Let the uninvolved or curious make their decision based on the differences they read in the comments and we will continue to grow and win.
As a former EVE miner (I have not played EVE in a while, I haven't changed profession), I'd like to say that all these people in the comments raging about how gankers are complete assholes are idiots. While I do not agree with ganking innocent people to goad them into buying a permit, I also vehemently disagree with AFK and bot mining. AFK mining is a bit idiotic as an idea since you cannot effectively AFK mine without a program to take care of switching asteroids, going to other belts etc., but bot mining is the worst. Take a look at Diablo III for example. Look at its "economy" of sorts. That's what botting does to games. Only the rarest items hold any value at this point. Eventually botting in EVE, gone unchecked, would cause massive overstocks of materials. You'd have hundreds of thousands of ships and equipment just sitting in storage because there's just no demand for them. I won't say anything about the amount of actual resources that'd be sitting in storage as I cannot even begin to predict that amount. I also view bot mining as unfair towards the other professions of EVE. You don't see explorers or mission runners using bots on a regular basis, and whether it's out of choice or not in those professions, using bots to mine basically spits in the face of people who sit on their computer and actually do the work themselves. If you can't be bothered to do it yourself, you don't deserve the rewards. Now that the rant about miners is done, let me start my rant about gankers. First of all I'd like to say that I disagree with the idea of permits. Gankers at this point effectively mug people rather than try to punish AFK and bot miners. Maybe this started out differently, but this what it's become for the most part; muggers. Other parts of the Code are ideologically disgusting. First of all, the self-righteousness that can be seen in the Code is idiotic. Many gankers are doing EVE a favor, that much is true, but treating all miners like they're your bitches only serves to worsen your reputation and pushes people away from the anti-bot, anti-afk ideology which you try to uphold. Requiring ganked miners to congratulate the ganker is idiotic beyond comprehension. How do you congratulate someone on a "good fight" when the whole thing wasn't a fight but a one-sided battle? Yeah, there are some exhumers like the Skiff (and its Mining Barge equivalent, the Procurer) which have effective tanking and rudimentary defence capabilities, but they are not dedicated combat ships, so killing them cannot be considered an actual fight. Secondly, "no excessive mining"? Many people, like me, actually enjoy mining. You're just going to prevent people from doing something they find enjoyable on the basis that others abuse it and cause harm to the EVE economy? On top of that, many miners, myself included, will often often only mine to get the funds for something else. Before I stopped playing EVE for a while, I spent all my time mining solely to be able to afford a better exploration ship and better exploration equipment. Just because someone spends all day mining doesn't mean they'll spend all their time doing so. On the matter of permits now. Permits are fundamentally wrong. First of all, paying to avoid bumping does not help enforce the anti-bot, anti-afk ideology. Sure, if that player is discovered using bots or afk mining again, they forfeit the permit and must pay again, but honestly how long will that take? In that time that person may have mined enough resources to be permits this way for a month. Again you're going to respond that they'll then be blacklisted and you'll just make mining hell for them. And I'm going to respond to that they can just move to a system where ganking is practically non-existent, avoid punishment and continue to bot and AFK mine.
ReplyDeleteNow, for a few suggestions. It'd be preferable and more effective to have dedicated interviewers grant account-wide tri-month passes to people who successfully pass an interview for one (include randomized questions, and non-standard ones created at the interviewer's discretion to accurately determine if the person is an honest miner). To prevent people from getting used to effectively lying in these interviews, after a certain, or random, period of time, a simple demand for a list of their recent ISK transfers would determine if they've been botting, since you'd see ISK transfers from obvious bot accounts. I'm only suggesting that permits be switched for this system, as it would logically have increased effectiveness. Now for a little extra evil on my part, I'd also suggest checking the regular miners of a system should a bot miner be found (apologies to innocent people appreciated). This would slowly create a herd mentality of anti-botting, causing regular honest miners in a system to scorn bot miners, and also make locating these bot miners easier for gankers. I would also suggest contacting the EVE University and request that they add an anti-bot and anti-afk tone to their mining classes. Thank you for reading my long rant.
DeleteP.S.: I'd like to know the ganker view on people using multiple accounts to ACTIVELY (not bot or AFK) mine. Personally, I think since you're paying attention to everything, it's the same as normal mining, but I'd still like to hear the ganker opinion.
DeleteFriend....you need an editor. At the very least, you need paragraph breaks. That huge block of undifferentiated text just is not readable as it currently is. Why not make a post in the forums (link in the top right of the screen) with your questions?
DeleteWhat did paragraphs ever do to you? I thought they were everyone's friend. Please use them next time.
Delete~ Asia Leigh
I apologize for my lack of paragraphs, but unfortunately, even if I were to use paragraphs, there would be about 2-3 of them, so I'm not sure how much that would help.
DeleteAlright, I bit the bullet and read your walls of text. Having done so, I'm not really sure what you're looking for here. If you come to a website about the value and utility of the Code and say "parts of the Code are ideologically disgusting"...what exactly are you expecting in response to that?
DeleteYou apparently object to the fact that we consider pvp play more admirable than pve play. In a general sense this is a matter of personal preference and there is no objectively better choice...but in the context of Eve, a game which is explicitly about player conflict, our valuing warriors over isk-grinders is objectively better than your valuing miners over warriors. You're free to have your preferences as we have ours, but the intent of the game creators is demonstrably closer to our preferences than it is to yours. So when you call our expression of those preferences (and our demand that people playing a pvp game acknowledge it when they are defeated in pvp) "idiotic beyond comprehension"...just what did you expect the result to be? "Oh sorry, you're right, we shouldn't take pride in winning pvp fights even when we are drastically handicapped by the intervention of invincible NPCs within twelvish seconds of the conflict starting"? Does that seem reasonable to you?
I guess I'll take a moment to address the "I mine to make money with which to not-mine" bit, too. Mining is objectively the worst way to make money while at the keyboard in eve. I explore for a living. I made the money for my starter exploration ship by doing the starter missions. Then I made money for subsequent, better exploration ships by exploring. You mined because that was what you wanted to do, not because the game ever forced you to or even made it rewarding to do so.
And finally, no, I somehow don't think we're going to change a system which has been having ever-greater success for three years because you think it's unfair to the nice miners who don't personally bot, they only behave like bots and tolerate bots among them. The miner community (now there's an oxymoron for you) had years to get its act together, and it didn't. Highsec was a failed state before James came along and pulled us all out of the muck of antisocial bot-aspirancy. You can accept the regime which reigns in highsec, you can rebel against us, or you can leave highsec. But arguing that we should change the core facets of a proven, successful system for some harebrained idea of constantly interviewing thousands of faceless, interchangeable miners...
I must ask, for a third time: just what did you expect the response to your presumption and unworkable suggestions would be?
The above poster's text with hastily inserted line breaks between ideas as I saw them:
DeleteAs a former EVE miner (I have not played EVE in a while, I haven't changed profession), I'd like to say that all these people in the comments raging about how gankers are complete assholes are idiots. While I do not agree with ganking innocent people to goad them into buying a permit, I also vehemently disagree with AFK and bot mining. AFK mining is a bit idiotic as an idea since you cannot effectively AFK mine without a program to take care of switching asteroids, going to other belts etc., but bot mining is the worst.
Take a look at Diablo III for example. Look at its "economy" of sorts. That's what botting does to games. Only the rarest items hold any value at this point. Eventually botting in EVE, gone unchecked, would cause massive overstocks of materials. You'd have hundreds of thousands of ships and equipment just sitting in storage because there's just no demand for them. I won't say anything about the amount of actual resources that'd be sitting in storage as I cannot even begin to predict that amount. I also view bot mining as unfair towards the other professions of EVE.
You don't see explorers or mission runners using bots on a regular basis, and whether it's out of choice or not in those professions, using bots to mine basically spits in the face of people who sit on their computer and actually do the work themselves. If you can't be bothered to do it yourself, you don't deserve the rewards.
Now that the rant about miners is done, let me start my rant about gankers. First of all I'd like to say that I disagree with the idea of permits. Gankers at this point effectively mug people rather than try to punish AFK and bot miners. Maybe this started out differently, but this what it's become for the most part; muggers.
Other parts of the Code are ideologically disgusting. First of all, the self-righteousness that can be seen in the Code is idiotic. Many gankers are doing EVE a favor, that much is true, but treating all miners like they're your bitches only serves to worsen your reputation and pushes people away from the anti-bot, anti-afk ideology which you try to uphold.
Requiring ganked miners to congratulate the ganker is idiotic beyond comprehension. How do you congratulate someone on a "good fight" when the whole thing wasn't a fight but a one-sided battle? Yeah, there are some exhumers like the Skiff (and its Mining Barge equivalent, the Procurer) which have effective tanking and rudimentary defence capabilities, but they are not dedicated combat ships, so killing them cannot be considered an actual fight.
Secondly, "no excessive mining"? Many people, like me, actually enjoy mining. You're just going to prevent people from doing something they find enjoyable on the basis that others abuse it and cause harm to the EVE economy? On top of that, many miners, myself included, will often often only mine to get the funds for something else. Before I stopped playing EVE for a while, I spent all my time mining solely to be able to afford a better exploration ship and better exploration equipment. Just because someone spends all day mining doesn't mean they'll spend all their time doing so.
On the matter of permits now. Permits are fundamentally wrong. First of all, paying to avoid bumping does not help enforce the anti-bot, anti-afk ideology. Sure, if that player is discovered using bots or afk mining again, they forfeit the permit and must pay again, but honestly how long will that take? In that time that person may have mined enough resources to be permits this way for a month. Again you're going to respond that they'll then be blacklisted and you'll just make mining hell for them. And I'm going to respond to that they can just move to a system where ganking is practically non-existent, avoid punishment and continue to bot and AFK mine.
@Maria Malukker
DeleteAlright, first off you seem to have misunderstood what I meant. I do not object in taking pride in winning a PvP fight when in 12 or so seconds you'll be blown up whether you like it or not, I object in expecting the defeated party to congratulate you on winning a one-sided battle, imminent death or not.
In regards to your reply to my mining bit, mining may be the objectively least effective way of making ISK, but it requires less attention, which allows me to devote the rest of my attention in doing things like socializing with other players, checking regional prices for the best places to sell ores, and other in-game activities which I would otherwise not be able to do while I was busy with my main profession, whatever that may be.
Also, you seem to have a very strange idea of what "ever-greater success" means. The biggest "success" gankers have had has been making the bigger part of the miner and miner-related community hate them, and as a result hate their ideology. Many of the complacent have just been bullied into acceptance and don't really hold the Code ideology. Of course, many understand the Code better than the illiterate bot miners that continue to be a cancer in the mining community, but how many are they compared to the anti-Code miners?
Also I'm not sure what miner community you're referring to. A swarm of solo-ers or small corporations with little contact can't really be called a community. And yes, for the most part gankers and bumpers have helped hi-sec, but that help has really turned into bullying people into buying permits, whether they've done something wrong or not.
I'd also really like to know just how many code-breakers with permits you've found, because I'm fairly certain there's still many who just renew their permits and avoid ganker-heavy territory so they can continue to use bots.
Finally, my suggestions may not have been perfect, or completely thought-out, but they were just that; suggestions. I'm not telling you to change, I'm asking you to consider if your current system is really as effective as another one could be.
I'd like to thank the person that took the time to add line breaks to my wall of text.
DeleteYou're welcome. I aim to please.
Delete